Thread: Dormer or Sutton?

I have used Sutton, P&N and Dormer plus a bunch of German brands. My set of P&N bits I brought with me from Oz were missing bits that broke and I needed to replace them. I bought a set of the new Dormer chisel point drill bits in the red plastic box. These are no longer made in the UK but are now manufactured in Brazil.

I was initially concerned that the quality may not be there but they have turned out to be excellent. I work with Brazillians in the oil industry and their work is good and to a high standard, it's just that their wages are lower. The quality has remained high and I bought a further 2 sets of drill bits from 1mm to 13mm in .5mm incraments.

I believe that you can sharpen the chisel points as you would a normal bit, it's just that the web is ground out on them. I have a tool and cutter grinder so I am not worried about this but if you were doing it by hand you may struggle a bit.

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Paul.

I've used both brands and they are both pretty good. The Sutton boxes are poorly designed, I have a set and you can't see the sizes very easily.I would buy Sutton because they are Australian made.

I have had nothing but success with Dormer. They have been superb and are now the only drills I buy. Note that P&N are now made offshore. I own Sutton drills but would not buy them over Dormer. Dormer drills seem to be stiffer which keeps them on center. I have had too much flex with the Sutton drills I own. It might be that they are not as sharp as Dormer, or have a different cut geometry.

I believe some Dormer are still made in UK, there seems to be severel different levels based on a alpha numeric system, the same as Sutton have here (but sutton use different brands and names eg Frost, P&N, Viper). Anyone know which Dormer are which?

Also how do people rate the Sutton Cobalt in comparison to Dormer or Sutton HSS?

Originally Posted by Burnsy

I am looking at buying a 25 piece metric drill set for fixed machine use and relegating all my old bits to hand held only. I have been looking at the Dormer sets but there seems to be a few different grades, is anyone up with which are best? Also considering a set of Sutton cobalts for similar price, is cobalt
a better option than Dormer HSS, would like to support Aussi manufacturing if the quality is there?

Two other things, must be suited to sharpening on a grinder so no fancy grinds and webs that will cause me grief and they must be in a tin box with marked increments.

Dormer is up with the world's best, like Titex, Guhring, Cle-Forge. They are all expensive, but will consistently not disappoint.
Sutton are a local brand, easy to find in Australia and NZ but completely unknown elsewhere. I have 3 Sutton sets (one 20Y old), and no not as good as the top brands are, but hey they cost less here especially when on special.

If you go Suttons, get the standard drills, not the "Viper". I have both sets, and the Viper have for many tasks a too aggressive grind, they are also harder to re-grind and obviously more fragile.

Good quality Hss-Co drills are generally considered too expensive for everyday use. They are the choice for tough materials that easily work harden. Or on machines where tool life matters foremost.

I bought 5, 3mm Sutton drill bits packaged in the green blister pack from my local hardware store on Sunday 03/07/14. First one out was blunt as a cats nose, using cutting fluid drilling through 10mm black bar. This can't be I thought, surely not, can't be blunt, persistent with the drilling i continued on to see how long it would take to get through, after 10 minutes i swapped for another, also blunt. 3rd one opened was fine. I have a drill doc sharpening tool, doing the 3mm bits on that is a pita. Local bloke and Bunnies sell Sutton, I too am after something a bit more sustainable and better quality.

DD

I have a few Dormer sets. Some UK, some Brazil. To be honest I can't tell the difference. They are drill equally as well. I have not had a single bit go blunt or refuse to drill. Does not matter if it is Steel, AL or Brass. I have this set (among others): Dormer A095 Comp HSS TIN Drill SET 1 10mm X 0 5 | eBay - hard to go wrong for under $100. Despite the photo, the set is 0-10mm, not 13mm.

I to swear by dormer, not just for drills.

I use A002 (i think thats it) split point TiN coated almost exclusively, although i do have a set of black imperial drills that are still going strong after 10 years.

I also use dormer center drills, i have never broken one.

They manufacture all over Europe, Brazil and now lately India. Whilst i am not happy to see the Indian stuff the quality seems to be just as good as the rest. Their HSSCo endmills are simply unbeatable, i think they come out of Italy. Not cheap though but i'd bet they will last long enough to be cheaper in the long term than the CTC cutters.

Ew

These guys - Guhring are worth a look, and their specials come on each month. The specials rotate around with drills, countersinks, taps and counterbores featuring regularly. You can search back on past specials by changing the url. address month and year bits as applicable. This month it is drill sets that feature, so you may be lucky if they have what you are after, at a price you are happy with, and although I have not used them, I gather they are pretty highly regarded. HTH
Rob.

Guhring E-Newsletter August 2014

Originally Posted by Ueee

They manufacture all over Europe, Brazil and now lately India. Whilst i am not happy to see the Indian stuff the quality seems to be just as good as the rest. Their HSSCo endmills are simply unbeatable, i think they come out of Italy.
Ew

I have a few sets of their endmills and slot drills. I had to slot some mild steel on the weekend. Picked out the Dormer XS1's cut the first slot 10mm wide down to 10mm depth like butter. Thought it might be hairy going down to 5mm for the bottom slot, but grabbed another XS1. Slotted like a dream! No problems at all. I have a few of their carbide endmills which are also very nice!

Straight from their marketing blurb..
Material: XS1 HSS powder metallurgy steel. This provides a finer and more consistent grain structure than HSCo resulting in a tougher product able to more easily withstand the shock load and intermittent cutting associated with milling operations. Tool life and wear resistance, exceeds standard HSS and is comparable to HSCo cutters. Superior edge strength and rigidity, resulting in improved surface finish and slot consistency equal to and in some cases better than HSCo. A productivity increase of around 40% over existing HSS cutters.

Originally Posted by Ropetangler

These guys - Guhring are worth a look, and their specials come on each month. The specials rotate around with drills, countersinks, taps and counterbores featuring regularly. You can search back on past specials by changing the url. address month and year bits as applicable. This month it is drill sets that feature, so you may be lucky if they have what you are after, at a price you are happy with, and although I have not used them, I gather they are pretty highly regarded. HTH
Rob.

Guhring E-Newsletter August 2014

If Guhring are an equivalent quality to Dormer than that is a good price for a 25 bit set. Thanks for the link, I will look into them.

Has anyone had any success / comments about the Smith&Arrow drills? I spoke to the MD chap a while ago and he was saying they are up among the best out there.

In fairness I have no experience with his drills but his discs & flap wheels certainly hold unto his word.

Just thought Id mention it as I too am in the market for a new, good set of drills.

R
J