Thread: Electrolysis - A Superior Cleaning Process

Originally Posted by BobL

Before hospitals started being more careful with the disposal of radioactive tracers they used to just wash it down the sink. This has contaminated some lakes and rivers in north america and Europe. Nothing to be alarmed about, . . . . (yet). The fact that this stuff can be detected is because it is radioactive and so it stands out from the background, long term it will also decay and disappear but not so with somethings like lead or cadmium which stay toxic for ever. The problem with non radioactive materials is that being already present in the environment we don't even now have a really good idea what levels are natural and what are introduced by man. There are techniques that can be used to discriminate between the two sources but they are expensive and getting financial support for just doing the background measurements is tough. I tried several times to get funding from governments and Uranium mining companies to map the natural background of uranium around some WA U mines and got nowhere. Of course they are not interested in anything that might point a finger at a company at fault. It will be too late to do background measurements when there are a couple of floods that may start to move the stuff out of the tailings dumps. This is one of the reasons why I retired - it all got too hard and I started thinking like Uee



Heaps. The metal content of rubbish dumps, the ocean and especially some river estuaries will be eventually be worth mining when the prices of metal get high enough.

Heaps! That much! I knew it was a lot but Heaps! lol.

Or when the cost of recovery makes it viable. Bring on the nanomachines. Program one to go out and build replicas of itself using materials (atoms) found in the ground and all its copies to do the same. Problem solved in about 3 days so I have heard. Thats recycling at its best!

The amount of supposedly naturally occurring gold in the oceans is enough to finance many developing nations budgets for many ye
destroy the value of gold.

Dean

Wiki says there is only about 10–30 parts per quadrillion gold in the ocean. So maybe 45000tons? We've already mined 171 300 tons.
Makes Uraunium mining look good at 3 parts per billion.

Stuart

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Wiki says there is only about 10–30 parts per quadrillion gold in the ocean. So maybe 45000tons? We've already mined 171 300 tons.
Makes Uraunium mining look good at 3 parts per billion.

Stuart

that's just in the water, by ocean I also include the ocean floor and under the ocean floor.
Like on land metals are not distributed evenly on or under the sea floor.
The ooze in the outflow from large rivers will be one area worth targeting.
The Neva river estuary that flows into the Baltic at St Petersburg is very close to being worth mining.

Wiki entry

The Federal Service for Hydrometeorology and Environmental Monitoring of Russia classifies Neva as a "heavily polluted" river. The main pollutants are copper, zinc, manganese, nitrites and nitrogen. The dirtiest tributaries of the Neva are the Mga, Slavyanka, Ohta and Chernaya.^[20] Hundreds of factories pour wastewaters into the Neva within St. Petersburg and petroleum is regularly transported along the river. The annual influx of pollutants is 80,000 tonnes,^[21] and the heaviest polluters are Power-and-heating Plant 2 (Russian:ТЭЦ-2), "Plastpolymer" and "Obukhov State Plant". The biggest polluters in the Leningrad Oblast are the cities of Shlisselburg, Kirovsk and Otradnoye, as well as the Kirov thermal power station. More than 40 oil spills are registered on the river every year.^[22] In 2008, the Federal Service of St. Petersburg announced that no beach of Neva is fit for swimming.

" How much metal etc is laying on the sea floor?"
Dean

Thinking back on my time at sea and the cans of beer we
consumed (particularly between Japan and the Persian Gulf)
it must be enormous.

Originally Posted by BobL

that's just in the water, by ocean I also include the ocean floor and under the ocean floor.

Yes yes, I was replying to Deans comments really. The ocean floor is something else. There is a show currently on cable about guys driving under the ice for gold near Namo Alaska using suction dredges.

Stuart

Originally Posted by BobL

Heaps. The metal content of rubbish dumps, the ocean and especially some river estuaries will be eventually be worth mining when the prices of metal get high enough.

Researchers worried precious metals lost in e-waste recycling - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Michael

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Yes yes, I was replying to Deans comments really. The ocean floor is something else. There is a show currently on cable about guys driving under the ice for gold near Namo Alaska using suction dredges.

Stuart

Driving under the ice? must be some car.......

Bob, whillst i may be a bit blaze about pouring lead laden water on the weeds, and i know "every little bit counts", but i just don't see how what i throw out the back is going to have any real life effects compared to the industrial polluters. I have a decent solar array and drive about the most efficient van i could get.....thats my contribution and i'll happily admit whilst they may make me feel better i know they aren't really enough to make a huge difference.

Originally Posted by Ueee

Driving under the ice? must be some car.......

Bob, whillst i may be a bit blaze about pouring lead laden water on the weeds, and i know "every little bit counts", but i just don't see how what i throw out the back is going to have any real life effects compared to the industrial polluters. I have a decent solar array and drive about the most efficient van i could get.....thats my contribution and i'll happily admit whilst they may make me feel better i know they aren't really enough to make a huge difference.

Yeah I'm the same. I have to actively keep reminding myself that zillions of little people like me and you doing a little is better than not. But hey - I'm no saint. Like the scum that I scraped off the top of my small lead castings (probably a thousand times more lead than you pour on your weeds) - what the hell do we do with that?

The problem is that there are no systems set up to deal with these problems and those that exist are over the top and expensive. An example of this is asbestos disposal.

Back in 2006 I had 10 sheets of fencing asbestos to get rid off. I ring around and the minimum cost for anyone to come and get them was $245 and I had to individually wrap each sheet in 2 layers of thick black builders plastic and the edges sealed with gaffer tape at my expense. I ring around a bit more and find out that there is an asbestos dump at Kwinana about 50 km away and they charge by weight - do I have to wrap them for disposal, the dump people said, "No - but it's a good idea seeing as you have to handle them". So I buy my roll of thick black builders plastic and gaffer tape and seal them up. Put them in the back of my then ageing mitsubishi van and head for the dump. On my way south on the Kwinana freeway I see a guy towing a trailer full of asbestos, not covered, not one sheet sealed, dust pouring off the back. Oh well there's got to be at least one of these aI thought. As I turn off the main drag to the dump where I join a small convoy of vehicles (mainly big trucks) all carrying building waste including asbestos. Not a single vehicle had sealed sheets. Then we go thru a weigh bridge, which is covered in dust, the weigh bridge operator is sitting in a booth the inside of which is covered in half a cm of dust, even his eyebrows were dusty. Drive in convoy on a dirt track up onto a mountain of building rubble, a good portion of which was asbestos, did I see any black builders plastic, not a skerrick. On top of the mountain a D9 is cruising back and forth crushing asbestos sheets, The driver is in a cabin but has no PPE. My little Mitsubish and my 10 small sheets of black plastic covered look totally out of place, I hold my breath dump the sheets and run. Back at the weigh bridge the charge is a princely $40 ? BTW the suburb of Kwinana is only a couple of kms away from that dump - does anyone really care about these people?

So pardon me if I am now somewhat skeptical about the whole asbestos removal process. A few months later there were some renovations on our building at work that uncovered a 6" diam asbestos pipe about 9 ft long, and it had to was removed from the building. The building was sealed and everyone who worked in the building was sent home for a week. A plastic film walk through tunnel about 50 m long was constructed between the location of the pipe and the disposal truck. Dozens of guys in white suits and masks swarm the building, some collecting air samples for weeks after the event - I cannot even begin to think of the cost. I asked a supervisor, where are you taking the asbestos? "The Kwinana Dump Mate" was the reply.

Originally Posted by BobL

Yeah I'm the same. I keep reminding myself that zillions of little people like me and you doing a little is better than not. But hey - I'm no saint. Like the scum that I scraped off the top of my small lead castings (probably a thousand times more lead than you pour on your weeds) - what the hell do we do with that?

The problem is that there are no systems set up to deal with these problems and those that exist are over the top and expensive. An example of this is asbestos disposal.

Back in 2006 I had 10 sheets of fencing asbestos to get rid off. I ring around and the minimum cost for anyone to come and get them was $245 and I had to individually wrap each sheet in 2 layers of thick black builders plastic and the edges sealed with gaffer tape at my expense. I ring around a bit more and find out that there is an asbestos dump at Kwinana about 50 km away and they charge by weight - do I have to wrap them for disposal, the dump people said, "No - but it's a good idea seeing as you have to handle them". So I buy my roll of thick black builders plastic and gaffer tape and seal them up. Put them in the back of my then ageing mitsubishi van and head for the dump. On my way south on the Kwinana freeway I see a guy towing a trailer full of asbestos, not covered, not one sheet sealed, dust pouring off the back. Oh well there's got to be at least one of these aI thought. As I turn off the main drag to the dump where I join a small convoy of vehicles (mainly big trucks) all carrying building waste including asbestos. Not a single vehicle had sealed sheets. Then we go thru a weigh bridge, which is covered in dust, the weigh bridge operator is sitting in a booth the inside of which is covered in half a cm of dust, even his eyebrows were dusty. Drive in convoy on a dirt track up onto a mountain of building rubble, a good portion of which was asbestos, did I see any black builders plastic, not a skerrick. On top of the mountain a D9 is cruising back and forth crushing asbestos sheets, The driver is in a cabin but has no PPE. My little Mitsubish and my 10 small sheets of black plastic covered look totally out of place, I hold my breath dump the sheets and run. Back at the weigh bridge the charge is a princely $40 ? BTW the suburb of Kwinana is only a couple of kms away from that dump - does anyone really care about these people?

So pardon me if I am now somewhat skeptical about the whole asbestos removal process. A few months later there were some renovations on our building at work that uncovered a 6" diam asbestos pipe about 9 ft long, and it had to was removed from the building. The building was sealed and everyone who worked in the building was sent home for a week. A plastic film walk through tunnel about 50 m long was constructed between the location of the pipe and the disposal truck. Dozens of guys in white suits and masks swarm the building, some collecting air samples for weeks after the event - I cannot even begin to think of the cost. I asked a supervisor, where are you taking the asbestos? "The Kwinana Dump Mate" was the reply.

It would be incorrect for me to think that the purpose of all these regulations regarding the removal and handling of asbestos were to provide employment and money for the companies involved in the process rather than the protection of people in the community, wouldn't it!

I believe that in SA (over the border) the professionals have to be called in for a 2m² piece. We are lucky that there is a covered trailer parked at our dump (transfer station) for double wrapped parcels of asbestos although I am not sure of the limits.

I started collecting cell type batteries for proper disposal. I tried to find out about disposal locations. I was happy to take them to Adelaide when I was going there. I finally found that it was recommended to take them to the dump.

Radioactive smoke detectors. Now it has been decided that it is to difficult to handle them. Take them to the dump as well.

How would one dispose of lead contaminated water? Two choices I can think of.

High temperature incineration. Not sure if it is suitable.

Take a trip to Port Pirie and give it to someone to water their garden. Lead contaminated? Wont be as bad as the dirt is already Mate.

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

High temperature incineration. Not sure if it is suitable.

Lead is an element that cannot be broken down by conventional temperatures even in a high temp furnace unless you could get to about 100 million degrees.
Incineration will send the lead as lead oxide dust into the atmosphere so it will then settle out all over the place.

The lead in the electrolyte will be present as small lead carbonate crystals which are quite insoluble in water so pouring it on the weeds means it will join the insoluble lead in the soil. Only if someone was to put acid onto that area of soil would it move around. Growing vegies in that soil will mean the veggies might pick up a bit of lead dust but so will any vegies growing in suburban solis. Another good idea to wash all veggies before use.

Originally Posted by BobL

Lead is an element that cannot be broken down by conventional temperatures even in a high temp furnace unless you could get to about 100 million degrees.
Incineration will send the lead as lead oxide dust into the atmosphere so it will then settle out all over the place.

The lead in the electrolyte will be present as small lead carbonate crystals which are quite insoluble in water so pouring it on the weeds means it will join the insoluble lead in the soil. Only if someone was to put acid onto that area of soil would it move around. Growing vegies in that soil will mean the veggies might pick up a bit of lead dust but so will any vegies growing in suburban solis. Another good idea to wash all veggies before use.

So not suitable. I sort of thought that would be the answer.

Would the vegetables actually absorb lead as well as have it on the skin?

We have been trying to grow our own, being out in the country but with pure sand type soil, poor water holding, rabbits, gazillions of birds looking for tasty sprouts, cows ignoring fences and the odd grasshopper plague!

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

So not suitable. I sort of thought that would be the answer.

Would the vegetables actually absorb lead as well as have it on the skin?

We have been trying to grow our own, being out in the country but with pure sand type soil, poor water holding, rabbits, gazillions of birds looking for tasty sprouts, cows ignoring fences and the odd grasshopper plague!

Dean

Different plants will pick up different amounts. Lead follows calcium in biological pathways so uptake within the plant structure will occur most in stuff like leafy greens and surprisingly less in root veggies. A bigger problem may result if soil dust is ingested with the plant and the concentrated by an animal (eg milk).

The role of soil stuff on plant surfaces has been largely ignored but as far back as the 60's tobacco companies knew that the primary reason why tobacco is radioactive is because the hairs on tobacco plants hold soil dust so tightly it cannot be easily washed off. Amongst the first genetic modification experiments done on plants were attempts to grow (unsuccessfully) hairless tobacco. It has been estimated that something like 1/3rd of all tobacco causes cancer comes about from the increased radiation exposure caused by breathing in the radioactive component of tobacco.

Originally Posted by BobL

Different plants will pick up different amounts. Lead follows calcium in biological pathways so uptake within the plant structure will occur most in stuff like leafy greens and surprisingly less in root veggies. A bigger problem may result if soil dust is ingested with the plant and the concentrated by an animal (eg milk).

The role of soil stuff on plant surfaces has been largely ignored but as far back as the 60's tobacco companies knew that the primary reason why tobacco is radioactive is because the hairs on tobacco plants hold soil dust so tightly it cannot be easily washed off. Amongst the first genetic modification experiments done on plants were attempts to grow (unsuccessfully) hairless tobacco. It has been estimated that something like 1/3rd of all tobacco causes cancer comes about from the increased radiation exposure caused by breathing in the radioactive component of tobacco.

Interesting information Bob. Dust can be worse. That is understandable.

I am glad I live where I do. There are still issues, but not as bad as some places. There are very few spray operations in my area. My property is surrounded on three sides by Blue Gum plantations. They spray the boundaries with herbicide (probably roundup) regularly. They (contractors acting under instructions) are very careful to keep 2-3ft from our fences. I wish they would go right to the fence because then our cows would not push against the fences to get to the 2-3ft strip of grass on the other side. That is about the worst of our problems.

Dean

Originally Posted by DSEL74

FREE I like FREE!
Computer power supplies come in quite varied specs. Can you provide more details and how was it modified just extended the wires and add gator clips?

I did mine like this with a switch, led and binding posts on the front for the different voltages.

How to Convert a Computer ATX Power Supply to a Lab Power Supply