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  1. #46
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    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    Looks like a casting imperfection to me. I would say it was bogged and the process has removed it.

    FWIW my tank was a kind of milky green last night. I've never really noticed it being that colour before. It's amazing what you see when you actually look........

    Thanks for the links to the rods Bob.

    Cheers,
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by meastie View Post
    Thank you for your response!

    I went for 1A for a number of reasons. It was there, and I was following the ideas of this guy: ELECTROLYTIC RUST REMOVAL (ELECTROLYSIS) who favours gentle removal with the theory that more of the part is preserved. It sounded good to me, plus I was a little worried about blowing up the shed!
    I re-read your post and see that you didn't measure the current but just assumed that the charger would output 1A. This is not necessarily the case as the current will depend on the concentration of the electrolyte. The 1A would be for a direct connection so the current was probably less that this.

    The formula tin was also used because I had it at hand. It also surrounded the part quite nicely. It was disgusting when done, but seemed to still allow the process to work for as long as I wanted it to run.
    Surrounding the part like that is a good idea to get an even electric field around the part being cleaned but you need to be very careful the part does not touch the anode or it will create a short circuit and it may spark.

    As to whether the pits were there before or it rusted under the paint, the fact that there is black oxide in the pits suggests the latter. The black oxide is partial reduced red oxide.

  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I re-read your post and see that you didn't measure the current but just assumed that the charger would output 1A. This is not necessarily the case as the current will depend on the concentration of the electrolyte. The 1A would be for a direct connection so the current was probably less that this.



    Surrounding the part like that is a good idea to get an even electric field around the part being cleaned but you need to be very careful the part does not touch the anode or it will create a short circuit and it may spark.

    As to whether the pits were there before or it rusted under the paint, the fact that there is black oxide in the pits suggests the latter. The black oxide is partial reduced red oxide.
    Bob, thanks again!

    On the part photographed it was measured at .65-.7A.

    I was very conscious of the part touching and set it up so that it wouldn't to the best of my ability.

    So given that it was probably existing rust or filler, what the best tack to take now? Complete the process, fill and paint? What's a good filler?

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by meastie View Post
    Bob, thanks again!

    On the part photographed it was measured at .65-.7A.

    I was very conscious of the part touching and set it up so that it wouldn't to the best of my ability.

    So given that it was probably existing rust or filler, what the best tack to take now? Complete the process, fill and paint? What's a good filler?


    In this case Bob is probably right about it being a rust pocket, however if the part does have filler it will be removed in the process. So either way it is kind of irrelevant if you intend to proceed with this form of cleaning.

    Once the part is cleaned, prime it and use standard automotive bog as a filler for the cavities.
    …..Live a Quiet Life & Work with your Hands

  6. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSEL74 View Post
    In this case Bob is probably right about it being a rust pocket, however if the part does have filler it will be removed in the process. So either way it is kind of irrelevant if you intend to proceed with this form of cleaning.

    Once the part is cleaned, prime it and use standard automotive bog as a filler for the cavities.
    To be honest I'm undecided about continuing at the moment. It seemed like a great solution at the time because of the perceived low labour requirement. If I have to fix things after that disappears though!

    I guess my main concern is loss of strength/integrity of the part, but if there are these rust pockets there already then I'd imagine this isn't an issue either?

    The next part I wanted to tackle cleaning is the saddle...

  7. #51
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    Default Getting the copper off

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    I thought so too so I tried it and even with the most concentrated nitric possible it was not that fast. I also tried aquarregia which can dissolve gold and it too was slow. Electrolytic copper is very pure and pure metals behave very strangely and not always according to what the text books say. I have dissolved a lot of different and ornery metals in my time and I have to say I was surprised how tough this was.
    Hey all,

    I was going to try the molasses approach today (just to see the difference, I have been using electrolysis for a while now), but as fate would have it, I couldn't break down the part to a point that I could fit it into the smaller bucket that I had (because I was cheap and only bought 2L of molasses, and wanted to go with a 9:1 ratio), anyway back to topic.

    I use carbon gouging rods like you guys for electrolysis, but I have gone down a different path as far as getting the copper off. I peel it off like an orange.

    It probably takes longer to achieve initially, until you get the hang of it, but without blowing my own trumpet, I would say I could probably be an olympic contender in the peeling copper off a gouging rod competition (I have never timed myself, but I will usually do 10 at a time and I get it done quickly).

    The key really is getting it started, so this is how I do it:

    Starting from the end that is fully covered in copper

    photo1.jpg

    I use my angle grinder with a wire wheel attached

    photo2.jpg

    to remove a small section (my main concern is forming a lip around the edges for a pair of needle nose pliers or screw driver to lift the edge up and start things off)

    photo3.jpg
    this is the tricky part (get this right and you will be done quickly, get it wrong and it becomes fiddly), often I find the most successful approach is to use the pliers to pull the top off like a beer, if all else fails use a small flat nose screw driver to tear and lift the copper (but definitely read my warning at the bottom, slipping with the screwdriver could be painful, don't be afraid to change directions. Once you have it started you just literally hold the end of the copper and peel it like an orange, a slightly down and at say 30 degrees off the carbon rod (it's not rocket science though, but obviously you want it to peel down)

    photo4.jpg

    End result is carbon rods with no copper.

    photo5.jpg

    Your methods sound interesting and less labour intensive, but for the quantity that I need and the fact that I always decide to do these things last minute (no time to wait for the copper to dissolve), it works for me. I thought it might also suit others that are a bit scared to be playing around with other chemicals.

    A word of warning though, I don't, but I would highly recommend gloves or at least take care as the copper does become sharp when it is torn and would probably give you the paper cut from hell.

    Cheers,

    Camo

  8. #52
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    I have removed the post as I notice that it shows part of my photo storage that was not posted, realized that it was through IE 10
    which is a pain sorry about this.

    Eddie

  9. #53
    Ueee's Avatar
    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    I had a moment today, my bath is near the Mars lathe and there was a great big "birds nest" of thickish shavings sitting in the top of the swarf bin. Looking at it i though there must be a pretty decent surface area there.....So i threw it in the bath and hooked it up....instant amp jump and nice bubbles.
    They probably won't last long but i have plenty and better to use those than sheet or bar that could be used for something else. I will still get some carbon rods though.
    The car parts look good Eddie

    Cheers,
    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  10. #54
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    Default Electrolysis

    Thanks Ew, I forgot that I was still on IE10 ,I have changed over to Fire Fox which is nearly as bad,
    I will try to put them back if I can remember what I posted. This was what I was using for the electrolysis
    12 ltr water and 2 good table spoons of washing soda with 5 to6 amps on a battery charger I am
    Restoring a Austin AS3 1953. the largest pieces used was brake drums and have had no trouble as yet.




    A before and after in Molasses,which I have used for most of the running Gear, I used the molasses back in 1982
    on previous restorations.






    All running gear is now primed and painted,
    I should put the pics in the forum storage but have trouble posting them from the storage.
    its probably me.Post showed other stored photos

    Eddie
    Last edited by TKO; 27th June 2013 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Post showed other stored photos

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by camoz View Post
    Hey all,

    .
    .
    .I use carbon gouging rods like you guys for electrolysis, but I have gone down a different path as far as getting the copper off. I peel it off like an orange.
    .
    .
    this is the tricky part (get this right and you will be done quickly, get it wrong and it becomes fiddly), often I find the most successful approach is to use the pliers to pull the top off like a beer, if all else fails use a small flat nose screw driver to tear and lift the copper (but definitely read my warning at the bottom, slipping with the screwdriver could be painful, don't be afraid to change directions. Once you have it started you just literally hold the end of the copper and peel it like an orange, a slightly down and at say 30 degrees off the carbon rod (it's not rocket science though, but obviously you want it to peel down) o
    I just tried this and it works a treat. Once I got it started to unravel I lay the rod down on a benchtop and held the copper strip with a pair of pliers with one hand and rolled the rod along the bench with the other hand and it came off very easily.
    Thanks for the tip - it's much quicker and cleaner that dissolving it off.

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by gallegos View Post
    I did mine like this with a switch, led and binding posts on the front for the different voltages.

    How to Convert a Computer ATX Power Supply to a Lab Power Supply
    After seeing this link I decided to tidy up my old ratty computer PS setup according to the link above.

    One thing I wanted was an indicator that was more powerful than an LED and maybe do without the usual power resistor or floppy drive attached to the PS to keep the PS running.
    The reasons I wanted a more powerful indicator was
    - sometimes the circuit shorts or drops out turning the PS off so it's useful to know if it's on or not
    - the other thing is I don't like leaving things unnecessarily on at night so I need something reasonably visual that will show up after I turn all the lights off for the night like the orange "compressor on" indicator near the light switch. The shed already has so many red, green and blue indicators that another LED would I fear not show up.

    I played around with bike lighting and other small light globes but in the end I came up with a 20W standard 12V downlight but wired to the 5V line which has plenty of spare current.
    At 5V the power generated is around 3.5W, still bright enough to show up and not too hot to melt the surround.

    BTW the sockets in the standard motherboard plug attached to the PS fit the pins on a 12V downlight very neatly so I just cut a pair of these off and jammed them in an existing hole in the PS case and mounted the globe directly.


    IMG_3921.jpg

    IMG_3923.jpg

    IMG_3924.jpg

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