Thread: Filings In Headstock

They are supposed to be hardened gears? I not 100% sure where it's coming from but put a magnet in there to catch the shavings as the oil goes through the bearings.

As for gaskets, my lathe (Chinese) has a gasket and it saves having to break the seal when ever I want to open it up. I have never had a leak.

With the front bearing just take it off and seal it up. Without taking mine off and looking I can't remember what is there but it doesn't leak at all.

Dave

Just looking again, thats a lot of shavings, I take it that it's out of warranty?
I would still email them a picture of it because even my Chinese lathe doesn't have anything like that.

Dave

[QUOTE=Keith_W;1645211]My AL1000C Lathe is just over 1yr old now so decided to have a look in the Head Stock, I found some very fine metal shavings as per pictures.


Would the Form say it’s just the gears bedding in and recommend a flush and oil change or would you say it’s more serious.
Regards,
Keith_W.[/QUOTE

That is a lot of metal.

I would change the oil and have another look after 10 hours use and see if there is any more.

Also looking at the photo it appears that the gear on the spindle nearest the chuck is showing a wear pattern for only half the width of the gear, with possible tooth damage on the corners of the gear teeth.

May pay to check gear alignment for all gears.

Cheers

Rob

Keith I'd agree with Rob, further to what he said, the main issue with Chinese machines is the people building them seriously don't care. It's not like the old Western built machines where the workers had some form of pride in what they were doing. As a result the attitude is "If it looks right, and nobody notices, it's good enough". Apart from the alignment issue, the Chinese are notorious for not cleaning out their castings properly before assembling. You MAY be able to tell where the filings are from from very close inspection, but if not, it's possible some (or all) of them were there from day one. Foundry sand for example should be obvious.

The first thing a person buying a Chinese (or any machine for that matter) should do is remove the rubbish oil they normally ship them with. It's typically the cheapest, worst oil they can possibly get away with. Then flush out the gearbox casting to get all the junk out. Fill it with decent oil and then go through the rest of the machine checking the alignement etc of all the components. No need to get carried away with dial indicators etc, you're not looking to rebuild the thing, just look for obvious things. Many of the things I've found haven't been nitty-gritty machining errors, they've been idiotic assembly faults, eg motors horribly misaligned etc.

I can appreciate the concern you'd have with finding filings there. But at this stage I'd agree with Rob, try not to get too concerned about it. Check for any obvious misalignment and correct it, fill it up again, and keep an eye on it.

Pete

Hi there,

Have to agree with previous replies. Your Headstock looks identical to mine. The first time I opened it up I saw a mixture of casting sand and metal filings in the oil drain lip same as yours.

Unfortunately for me, by the time I realised it was a good idea (and common practise) to open and clean these machines, all the rubbish had been fed through my "precision" Chinese bearings to the point that they were destroyed. If you look at that top lip, you will see that it is used to gravity/splash feed the spindle bearings with the oil via those holes above the spindle.

Also, rob has a point, looking at the large gear closest to the chuck, it looks like it's not lining up properly and only making contact with half the width of the gear. These lathes are not too bad, the materials are OK, it's just a shame that they throw them together so quickly. These machines could be so much better EX factory with a little more time in the assembly.

Have a look at your gear change levers, if the gears do not line up to their full width, you should be able to find some adjustment. There are multiple areas of adjustment in the system.

The front oil labyrinth cannot be totally removed without removing the spindle. Unless you want to go to this extent, I would either (1) keep wiping the oil off (it probably won't be the only oil weep you get) or (2) you can loosen the cap heads, slide it hard up to the chuck mounting (remove the chuck) and clean, reapply some gasket cement.

I totally striped my headstock, stripped it back to bear metal inside and out, repainted the inside and out, replaced all bearings with Japanese/FAG bearings, and replaced the gaskets with kangaroo leather gaskets Leather Gasket Material Stock Sheet Packing Bellows Seal Facing PAD Multi USE | eBay

and then learnt how to align a headstock. It became my mission to align it better than the test report it came with. (both vertical and horizontal)

Lots of work, but I have been very happy ever since. I periodically lift the lid to check the oil quality and it's now always clean. Oh, and same same as dave, I put a magnet inside so that if any metal filings are created, they get caught before they go through my spindle bearings!

Cheers,

Simon

Found some pics of my headstock after striping and painting (inside)

Paint used was POR15 which has been an excellent choice although next time I would probably choose grey not black.
SUPER STARTER KIT Stop Rust Permanently with --POR-15 Inc.


2011-06-10_02-12-51_764.jpg2011-06-10_02-13-28_109.jpg

Cheers,

Simon

Simon that paint is about the same colour as the oil (?) that came out of my lathe QC Gbox when I received it.

I knew it was black gooop, as half of it had splashed/leaked out of the gbox and covered the base of the crate it came in.

Drained it, and although it was free of sand or metal, it was unlike anything the English language would call oil.

Gawd knows what it was.

Further to the possible gear alignment issue as mentioned to the OP, I saved and blew up the OP image and it looks like the left most gear on the lay shaft (rear of GBox) also has a bad wear pattern. Could be shadow, but I doubt it. Misaligned gears will most certainly increase wear and cause chipping from the teeth edges biting into the gear face.

So check all engagement positions on the levers to see what's going on. This could be where those metal chips are coming from.

Cheers

Rob

There are 6 black circles in the oil gallery, the center two are galleries going to the bearings. Are the other 4 appear to be catching "gearbox gold" before it gets to the bearings? Pretty sure my headstock doesnt have those but it seems like a good idea.

Stuart

Hi Simon,
So you collar around the spindle wont come off without removing the spindle? Mine comes off after removing the chuck, but thats it.

You did a great job on your lathe, I had forgotten you did all that.

Dave

Thanks Dave. Seems so long ago now. I have learnt heaps since then!

No, the front labyrinth will not fit over the spindle. From memory, this was the first thing I learnt when I decided to take it off to fix a similar oil leak to Keith. One thing lead to another (as it usually does with me) and next thing you know the entire lathe was broken down into it's smallest possible constituents..... well ignoring atomic and sub atomic sized particles anyway!

Rob, that paint sets (or cures) like glass on the cleaned metal surface. It's still as nice as the day it was painted on. If ever I have to do a similar job on another machine, I'll be sure to use the same stuff, except in grey. It's impervious to any oils and is so smooth that it's easy to flush the headstock at any time if I so desire. The only downside is the preparation of the metal prior to painting. You have to be spot on with the cleanliness.

Cheers,

Simon

... for posting this thread. As usual, Stu, Dave, Rob and others have provided valuable advice and guidance - perhaps they have missed their vocations!

For me, you have all triggerd me into action (when I'm allowed to return to my 'shed') so that I will be doing a strip job on my piece of oriental engineering. I'm on a week off - forced holiday she calls it! Ain't my idea of a holiday with NO SHED!

Take care, Daryl

Thanks Dave J, Rob, Pete F, Simon L, Stuart & Daryl for taking the time to reply.
I will be draining the Head, Cleaning it and looking at the Gear alignments. I will check for Gear wear and if I feel it excessive will speak to H&F about it. When refilling the Head Stock will fit a Magnet, excellent idea that for filings and have bought some Gasget Paper to make a Gasget for the lid.
When I finish my Mill modifications(taking forever) will be modifying the Lathe with a new Motor, VFD and Controls. I have started a file on Jigs etc to make for the Lathe and have looked at Dave J's post on the extra Tool Holders and will be making some myself.
I have so many Projects to do seems never ending but will be fun to make and expand my skills.

Regards,
Keith_W.

Good Luck! Hey my next major project will be a VFD conversion on my lathe. Did it on the mill not long ago and love it so lathe will be next. I just need to make sure that any turning needed for the motor mount/adapter is done BEFORE I start taking the lathe apart! I don't think it will be as difficult as the mill since pulleys and belts are more forgiving than shafts.

Cheers,

Simon

Originally Posted by Keith_W

I have so many Projects to do seems never ending but will be fun to make and expand my skills.

Regards,
Keith_W.

Thats whats it's all about and most of us here are doing the same thing, just some have been at it longer.

Dave