Thread: Fly press tooling?

Hi Jordan,
That die set appears to have had all the tooling removed. The holes you can see are either clearance holes for the slug/part to fall through or bolt/dowel pin holes. Most of the die sets I have used are cast, though that one might not be

What is the throat depth of your fly press?(i.e. will that die set fit? you might need to check closed and open height as well. Got a picture?)
I've no idea how far from the edge of the work you want to punch but remember the pillars will reduce the distance you can(of course that may not be an issue)
You could set it up as a strip feed easy enough and use a pin to index each hole from the last. For what you are doing it may be easier to have the stripper plate on the die.

Entry into the die is how far the punch in into the die at the bottom of the stroke.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

I have two sizes of them. They are John Heine models 86A and 182A.
I guess the bigger one (86A) might be more suitable for 4mm material.

Do you think the ebay diesets are worth getting? The price seems OK, and I might be able to get a friend to pick them up.

I still don't get the entry. Why does it matter?

Jordan

Hi Jordan,
At a rough guess the 3 ton would come up a little short.
If you will be using the flypress for other jobs, having a die set speeds setup.
I've no really idea what they go for second hand these days, I know I chucked about 5 tons of them in a scrap bin one time. But I'd say $40 was pretty cheap(certainly less than I was thinking you would find one for)

If you decide to get them, I will be down that way on Sunday the 11th and maybe able to pick them up. Will likely cost the same again to ship to you(but I'm just guessing at the weight)

Stuart

I took the plunge and bought the ebay diesets.
I'll pm Stuart about his offer to pick up.

Jordan

Hi Jordan,
Entry is the distance the punch enters the die after it has penetrated the material being punched. If you stop the punch so it is level with the top of the die, the slug may not come away cleanly from the punch. The depth of entry into the die depends on the precision of the tooling, the hardness or ductility of the material and the clearance between the punch and die. If the punch enters too far, it will start to wear both the punch and the die. I would start off with about .015" first and then decrease this to suit. Some of the tooling I have made had the punch set at only 0.002" into the die. It all depends on the material and what is required.
If you want to use HSS for the tooling, it would cost big $'s to have it made or a lot of mucking around to make it yourself. If the HSS blank is hard, it can't be machined easily to make the form of the punch, ie, the flared section and the head. If you use annealed HSS, you have to get it heat treated by a heat treat company. You can make a dozen punches using standard high carbon tool steel for the cost and involvement of using HSS just to make one of. You must have a head/shoulder at the top of the punch when it is assembled in the die set.
The stripper plate is best fitted to the top of the die. This will also provide the alignment for the MS strip as it passes thru over the die. Placing the stripper plate on the punch set up is not the normal way to go. The stripper plate fitted to the punch is used when the die set is also being used form a special shape as well as piercing a hole/s. The plate is used to hold the part down so it can't move while the forming is being done. It is usually referred to as a pressure plate in this instance. The clearance hole on the stripper plate needs to be around 5.5mm to 6mm dia for a 4mm dia punch. I would suggest a clearance between the top of the die and the bottom of the stripper plate be no more than 0.010" max. This again, will depend on the precision of the tooling. If thin sheet (0.015") is being stamped, the stripper plate clearance is reduced to about .010" per side or 0.020" bigger than the dia. of the punch.

Kody

Originally Posted by Kody

Hi Jordan,
Entry is the distance the punch enters the die after it has penetrated the material being punched. If you stop the punch so it is level with the top of the die, the slug may not come away cleanly from the punch. The depth of entry into the die depends on the precision of the tooling, the hardness or ductility of the material and the clearance between the punch and die. If the punch enters too far, it will start to wear both the punch and the die. I would start off with about .015" first and then decrease this to suit. Some of the tooling I have made had the punch set at only 0.002" into the die. It all depends on the material and what is required.
If you want to use HSS for the tooling, it would cost big $'s to have it made or a lot of mucking around to make it yourself. If the HSS blank is hard, it can't be machined easily to make the form of the punch, ie, the flared section and the head. If you use annealed HSS, you have to get it heat treated by a heat treat company. You can make a dozen punches using standard high carbon tool steel for the cost and involvement of using HSS just to make one of. You must have a head/shoulder at the top of the punch when it is assembled in the die set.
The stripper plate is best fitted to the top of the die. This will also provide the alignment for the MS strip as it passes thru over the die. Placing the stripper plate on the punch set up is not the normal way to go. The stripper plate fitted to the punch is used when the die set is also being used form a special shape as well as piercing a hole/s. The plate is used to hold the part down so it can't move while the forming is being done. It is usually referred to as a pressure plate in this instance. The clearance hole on the stripper plate needs to be around 5.5mm to 6mm dia for a 4mm dia punch. I would suggest a clearance between the top of the die and the bottom of the stripper plate be no more than 0.010" max. This again, will depend on the precision of the tooling. If thin sheet (0.015") is being stamped, the stripper plate clearance is reduced to about .010" per side or 0.020" bigger than the dia. of the punch.

Kody

Wonderful to read your press tooling description.
With me being the same age as you (69) we are from the same vintage.
Also good to read something about inch measurements & "Thous"
Your descriptive writeup took me back to those great tooling days, excellent times.
I would like to be still making press tools.
regards
Bruce

Gudday Bruce,
thanks for your kind comments, yes, it's so good to work in thous. Regardless of what anybody says, thous are the best ever for working with. I do love working with press tools, they are so exacting and different each time when making them

Kody

Originally Posted by Kody

Hi Jordan,
Entry is the distance the punch enters the die after it has penetrated the material being punched.
Kody

The penny has dropped - thanks for the clarification.
So, the slug from the previous operation would be stuck in the untapered part of the die, and the next one (or more) would push it out.

Jordan

Hi Kody,

Thanks for posting that. Great description of how to make press tooling.

The sheet metal punches I've got have a curved face, so they cut from the sides. The faces aren't flat the way you've described, is this just for punching thin sheet?

Only other thing I'm a bit curious about is if a 6 ton fly press would be up to the job of punching 5mm holes 4mm mild steel. ?

Regards
Ray

Hi Ray
Punches that have curved edges (dished in the center) are used when the hole to be stamped out (pierced) are relatively big in diameter. These are normally found on sheet metal type dies. The curved face is to allow the punch to start cutting at the two edges and progress around the punch. This takes a huge load off the press. A large flat punch requires a lot of energy to be driven thru a full contact disc. It also depends on the amount of tonage the press can handle. If you look at the punch and dies (Dick Smith stuff) you can buy for use at home when working with sheet metal, you will find that the punch is dished and the punch and die are pulled together with an "Unbreako" type screw. The amount of "dishing" on a punch for a powered press is kept to an absolute minimum if any "dishing" is used. A lot of stamping and cutting is performed using a cutting oil on the material being processed. This helps a huge amount to prolong the life of the punch and die. The deeper the "dishing", the further the punch needs to enter the die to complete the cut and this will produce faster wear. I think a 3 ton fly press would pierce a 5mm hole with little trouble in 4mm mild steel. Once the piercing has started, the punch will continue to cut thru with little effort. It's the initial cutting to "break" the inherent resistance of the material when the maximum load is needed.

Kody