Thread: Free turning book download

Originally Posted by erickendall

Hi guys, just did a quick browse on this book and with all due respect must say that (in my opinion) at most only 20 percent is really relevant to machining today. Turning between centres is really unheard of these days. The main reason this method was employed in earlier days was because of the limitations of the size of the headstock bearings and the hollow spindle size. The other main distinction between now and then is the tooling involved. ISO tooling inserts mean faster speeds, higher feed rates, and generally, but not always, better finishes.
The other areas that are redundant are measuring equipment and gear selection for screw cutting.
Also all the information on turret lathes. Forget it! Seriously, don't waste your brain power reading this stuff. No one these days is going to stand in front of a turret lathe and rotate a handle backwards and forwards like a monkey for $20.00 per hour.
What I'm trying to say here is that if you have more than a few components to produce, CNC is the only answer.

I cannot believe what I am reading . With all respect , if we all had that attitude , what's the point of doing anything !!!!!

As for CNC , my god , go to any TAFE and all they teach with for the most part are ordinary manual engine lathes . CNC lathes are not applicable for many tricky "hands on" one off jobs . You have to learn to walk before you can run. They won't let the 1st or 2nd year apprentices anywhere near a CNC lathe .... can you imagine a 1st year apprentice learning his craft on a CNC lathe !

"Gear selection for screw cutting is redundant" ..that's news to me . So that means your not capable of, or willing to, undo a nut and change a gear

Another point is: this is basically a hobby forum and I am sure not many of us are willing to shell out the huge bucks for a CNC lathe .

Many of the Hercus/Sheraton lathes we play with are 40 or 50 years or more old , and are still working . But , CNC lathes are controlled by sensitive electronics such as integrated circuits and transistors , highly likely not to last 50 years . When a CNC lathe breaks down , you need a diploma or degree in electronics to fix the thing.
Mike

Originally Posted by morrisman

I cannot believe what I am reading . With all respect , if we all had that attitude , what's the point of doing anything !!!!!

As for CNC , my god , go to any TAFE and all they teach with for the most part are ordinary manual engine lathes . CNC lathes are not applicable for many tricky "hands on" one off jobs . You have to learn to walk before you can run. They won't let the 1st or 2nd year apprentices anywhere near a CNC lathe .... can you imagine a 1st year apprentice learning his craft on a CNC lathe !

"Gear selection for screw cutting is redundant" ..that's news to me . So that means your not capable of, or willing to, undo a nut and change a gear

Another point is: this is basically a hobby forum and I am sure not many of us are willing to shell out the huge bucks for a CNC lathe .
Mike

Hi,

In supporting your statements and amplifying some points,

I started doing a course at a TAFE and one exercise in turning to diameter and length seemed to be interesting when the completed part was to be cut apart and used for project components.

It was later I realised that with the chucks on the lathes that the only way to turn a diameter less than 13mm was to turn between centres...

And with a truly set up tailstock it is capable of precise cylindrical work, let alone more specialized work like turning crankshafts.

As for change gears, a Norton box as on an A series lathe gives quick access to common thread pitches, but if you wish to do something really oddball such as cutting British Association (BA) threads you probably would find yourself sitting on the floor of the workshop sifting though a box of changegears

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Which one did you use? Could you put up a link perhaps?

Here you go.

I don't believe the book is irrelevant, especially in the context of this forum. This forum is frequented by a lot of hobbyists and a hell of a lot of them have older lathes and/or use more manual methods ... my own lathe was built in 1948.

Just because the techniques are not used often, does not mean that there aren't situations (in modern machining) where they can be used to solve particular problems.

I may not use 99% of what was in that book right now, but I may, some time in the future, come across a situation that is covered in that book - that to me makes it worth the read.

Originally Posted by Vernonv

Here you go.

Thanks Vernon

I had already printed the HTML version to my virtual pdf printer and that looked OK.

Out of curiosity I tried thie one in your link and it came out as 445 pages () with very large print, as a comparison the virtual pdf process created a 220 page pdf file.

I downloaded the "free" version, only a trial with a very obtrusive watermark on each page, it also produced a 220 page pdf document but, apart from the watermark, produced a slightly better looking document.

Originally Posted by erickendall

Hi guys, just did a quick browse on this book and with all due respect must say that (in my opinion) at most only 20 percent is really relevant to machining today. Turning between centres is really unheard of these days. The main reason this method was employed in earlier days was because of the limitations of the size of the headstock bearings and the hollow spindle size. The other main distinction between now and then is the tooling involved. ISO tooling inserts mean faster speeds, higher feed rates, and generally, but not always, better finishes.
The other areas that are redundant are measuring equipment and gear selection for screw cutting.
Also all the information on turret lathes. Forget it! Seriously, don't waste your brain power reading this stuff. No one these days is going to stand in front of a turret lathe and rotate a handle backwards and forwards like a monkey for $20.00 per hour.
What I'm trying to say here is that if you have more than a few components to produce, CNC is the only answer.

Eric most of what you say is absolutely correct from an industrial viewpoint, but I'd respectfully suggest most certainly not from the perspective of many members here.

Many of the old lathes that were in commercial use half a century ago have now found themselves another life in a hobbyist's workshop, and the techniques are just as relevant on those machines today as the day this book was written. Indeed the lathes are totally incapable of driving small diameter work at the optimum speed required by modern insert tooling. My own lathe is certainly far from an exception here; it has plain bearings (ie slow speeds), manual change gears, and the spindle bore never seems large enough!

Most certainly things have moved on but it doesn't mean the old knowledge should be thrown out in the garbage. On a side note however I did see them recommending carding a file to clean it. That was the way I was taught and didn't think anything of it until learning a few years ago that doing so dulls the file teeth (which makes sense that it would do so since the card's bristles are hardened). So I guess even the "Ol' Timers'" wisdom should sometimes be viewed with certain scepticism.

Pete

G'Day,

If you're after any out of copyright books try the internet archive.
Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free Books, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

It links to various projects (such as Gutenberg) and many libraries from around the world.

Do a search on a term such as "metal work", "wood work" etc. on the site and you'll have plenty of books to choose from in various formats.

Regards, Christian

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Out of curiosity I tried thie one in your link and it came out as 445 pages () with very large print, as a comparison the virtual pdf process created a 220 page pdf file.

I didn't really notice, but now that you mention it my online conversion was created the same.

Being large print must mean that I can read it to the kids for their bedtime story ... I'm sure they will enjoy it.

Thanks for the links guys.
I found the print is larger and very nice to read, the down side is the pictures aren't as good.

What is on the floor in fig 32?
Please tell me thats not swarf lol
Stuart

Mike,
""if we all had that attitude , what's the point of doing anything !!!!!""
Where the hell did that come from??? I'm all for doing things better, quicker and smarter, so I don't know what you're on about.


""As for CNC , my god , go to any TAFE and all they teach with for the most part are ordinary manual engine lathes . CNC lathes are not applicable for many tricky "hands on" one off jobs . You have to learn to walk before you can run. They won't let the 1st or 2nd year apprentices anywhere near a CNC lathe .... can you imagine a 1st year apprentice learning his craft on a CNC lathe !""

Totally untrue. I know of one CNC programmer / operator that has never used an engine lathe in his life. He can easily program and produce a one off item economically. He is very good at what he does.

""Gear selection for screw cutting is redundant" ..that's news to me . So that means your not capable of, or willing to, undo a nut and change a gear """

Why the hell would you bother if you didn't have to. My god, I'd much rather flick a lever and get the job done than to be messing around with nuts and gears and crap.


""Another point is: this is basically a hobby forum and I am sure not many of us are willing to shell out the huge bucks for a CNC lathe . "" Many of the Hercus/Sheraton lathes we play with are 40 or 50 years or more old , and are still working .""

Yes, I'm starting to understand that there a lot of people here with the old Hercus style lathes. If that's the case, which I'm sure it is, my comments regarding the the particular publication should probably be ( in part anyway) disregarded.

Originally Posted by erickendall

Yes, I'm starting to understand that there a lot of people here with the old Hercus style lathes. If that's the case, which I'm sure it is, my comments regarding the the particular publication should probably be ( in part anyway) disregarded.

Err . . . . only starting to understand, it is called the Hercus forum

Originally Posted by BobL

Err . . . . only starting to understand, it is called the Hercus forum

Good point Bob. I think I may have come across this thread through a link and was unaware of the "Hercus" status.
I can't believe the cult following these lathes have. Just a bit of quick research revealed this:
9" LATHE

I don't mean to offend the Hercus diehards, but to me, using one of these machines is the equivalent to going back to the slide rule and logarithmic table days.( yes I am old enough to have used these).

Originally Posted by BobL

Err . . . . only starting to understand, it is called the Hercus forum

Yes....... and there are/were CNC Hercus lathes too !

Originally Posted by erickendall

I don't mean to offend the Hercus diehards, but to me, using one of these machines is the equivalent to going back to the slide rule and logarithmic table days.( yes I am old enough to have used these).

I'm no more offended than when the concrete layer who was laying the floor of my new shed walked to my old shed and saw all these old tools and tools I had made myself hanging up and said, "Haven't you heard of Bunnings?"

My oldest hand tool (a hammer) has 1790 stamped on it.

The way things are going I reckon my 46 year old hercus is still going when all of your current CNCs are consigned to scrap.