Thread: Hulse planer

Originally Posted by .RC.

Ones that size probably closer to twenty tonnes... Then you have a massive foundation on top of that... You do not want the machine flexing when you put a ten tonne casting on the bed and trying to get it flat...


Here are a couple of flyers..

BSA-ChurchillGeneralCataloguepg07.jpg ChurchillGeneralCataloguepg12.jpg

Hi Richard,
Are those pictures out of a Churchill book? I have two other machines in the restoration lineup and it would be interesting if there are any details about them in the same publication. One is a Churchill ?OSB surface grinder. Only has a 18x8 mag chuck but it is built like a brick house. Must weigh close to 4 tonnes. The other is a lovely Churchill cylindrical grinder. Don't have any model information but again very solidly built. If you have anything on them that would be great.

Thanks again

Mark

attached churchill catalogues in pdf

Originally Posted by .RC.

attached churchill catalogues in pdf

Thanks a lot Richard,
I did not know they had such a variety of grinders in their product line. I am not sure what year that catalogue is from but I would think the OSB surface grinder and the OH cylindrical grinder I have are a bit earlier than the models shown here.
All of their products are certainly heavy weights.


Mark

The BSA Churchill catalogue would be from the 60's when Churchill were part of a much larger group of companies...

The earlier catalogue probably the fifties...

So the bolt down anchors are all glued in place and the planer has been leveled with shims and now it is time to grout the legs.

A few questions

1. Do you grout with the shims in place. The literature suggests they are best removed. If so do you grout a section first then remove the shims then grout the rest?

2. Is the a budget? grout. Have been looking at the Parchem conbextra grout Bob linked me to which sounds like the go but 14L of base and hardener come to around $400. Is there a cheaper alternative or is this something that needs to be properly the first time and just suck up the cost?

Thanks

Mark

I would leave the shims in place.make a dam around your feet mix the grout to a slurry consistency.
Wouldn't be paying to much for grout.

Hi Mark,

Use a non shrinking grout, like http://www.bunnings.com.au/dunlop-20...grout_p6650143 $25 for 20kg
Ray

Hi Mark,
All our steam engines are grouted with the shims/wedges still in place.

Phil

Thanks guys. Those suggestions make it a lot easier and cheaper.

Mark

Quick update.
The machine is leveled, bolted down and grouted.
Ran it for the first time few nights ago. Ran well but gears were very noisy especially going forward so decided to investigate. At some stage it has had a new bull gear made and the 2 driving pinon gears look altered. Interestingly the large driving gear ( 21 inch diameter) has 20 degree pressure angle which I assume would have been unlikely on the original. The 2 pinon gears look like someone has altered them with an angle grinder to make the teeth mesh with the new large gear. So decision has been made to made 2 new gears. They are 3DP, 14 teeth, 20 degree PA gears with OD more than 5 inches and about 3 inches thick. I have a 6 inch piece of round EN36A so will make them from this.
Will get some photos as I go and post them.

Cheers

Mark

Wet day today so time to get some more work done on the planer. Stuart my friend and mentor came over for a test fit of some plastic gears so I thought time for an update. Last post 3 months ago I ran the planer for the first time and discovered two driving pinion gears were noisy so took them off to investigate. After much investigation it looks like these gears where made at some time but fairly poorly. They look like they were made on a shaper and finished with a grinder or such like and of soft steel so the teeth had become moderately bent.
So the decision was made to replace them. These are fairly large gears at about 5 inch diameter, 3 inches thick and about 3DP but how hard can it be.

So I decided I should document our 2 steps forward 1 step back gear making adventure. At least it gives me a chance to play with some cool old school tools.

When we initially took the gears off we needed to decide what exactly they were and what exactly we needed to make.

Needed the type of gear,number of teeth,pressure angle,clearance and backlash required. This would seem easy when you have the gear you are replacing but they were somewhat worn and misshapen.
First was the type of gear. Given it is off a 100 year old English machine its unlikely to be metric. But is it DP or something else. I have a set of gear guages and it was close to 3DP and 20 degree PA but not quite.
The basic equation for this is number of teeth plus 2 divided by the outside diameter in inches equals the Diametrical pitch. As we had the 2 pinion gears and the large driven gear this seems easy.

Firstly we checked the small gears. Measured with the calipers and got readings around 5.072-5.086 depending on were they were measured. So 16 (14 teeth plus 2) divided by av 5.079 = 3.15DP . So close to 3 but not quite. Now time to measure the big gear. Out with the 50 inch Benson calipers and got an OD of 20.34 inches. Tried a Pi tape and this came out at 20.43 inches. This gave us 64 (62 teeth plus 2) divided by 20.34 = 3.14DP or 64 divided by 20.43 = 3.13DP. Initially I thought the slight difference was just because the gears were a bit worn/damaged. We decided to check a bit further. Out with the Machinerys handbook and Keurens over the wire tables. Found out what the tooth dimensions for a 3 DP 14 tooth gear was and set the gear tooth verniers to that dimension. Again close but not quite. Then I got out the gear wires for a 3DP gear and checked the diameter and no surprise but the 3 gears all measured too small.

Stuart being older and wiser by this stage knew what was going on but I was at a loss. He states it must be circular pitch gear. Now I had vaguely heard of circular pitch gears so out comes the machinery handbook again and I do some reading. Seems like in years gone by it was not all that uncommon especially in larger gears. The conversion from DP is CP = 3.14/DP which comes out very nicely at 1 inch circular pitch. The mystery was solved. Just to be sure I have a number of gear cutters from a gear planer so we got out the cutters for 3DP 20 degree PA and 1inch CP 20 degree PA and sure enough the CP cutter fitted perfectly.

Thats enough for one post. Will continue tomorrow. Some photos from today. These are not the actual measurements just some quick mockups at the end of the day to show you some of what I have discussed.

Cheers Mark
004.jpg005.jpg007.jpg008.jpg020.jpg

I'm going to have a wild guess that it's close to 3.14159 DP Or did I miss something obvious.

Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

I'm going to have a wild guess that it's close to 3.14159 DP Or did I miss something obvious.

Ray

Pi DP to you and me Ray😉

actually its its been interesting going through the process of checking and reverse engineering a big old gear. Theoretical and practical considerations don't always mesh perfectly (excuse the pun). Just reinforces the old adage of measure twice ( or in my case many times) and cut once.

Did you measure everything to ten millionths?