Thread: Loose MT2 in Pedestal Drill Spindle

Things like these (top of page) are available online from various suppliers

You'd have to get lucky on the correct external dimensions and the connection to your drill press.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/catalo...aptors-sleeves

Bill

Depends whether you ever want to get it out again, I've used this http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_H...=8802647703553 Loctite 660 on a pedestal drill that had a fixed spindle with a JT taper for the chuck and which wouldn't keep the chuck in place no matter what I did. Many, many years later the chuck is still there despite some fairly heroic hole-saw use with it.

Originally Posted by electrosteam

I have had a H&F SPD-25A Pedestal Drill for a good few years.
When virtually new, I discovered that my good Czech 1-13mm MAS chuck would not retain in the MT2, but the supplied 3-16mm no-name chuck supplied with the drill would.
Appropriate mutterings and cursing about SE Asian quality standards did not help.
No great problem as I had my small mill to drill small holes.

Just recently, however, the no-name chuck is proving loose also.

An investigation using marking pens on both chucks reveals that the drill taper is too big at the small end.

A thorough clean with White Spirit did little to improved matters.
The drill taper feels Ok to the touch, and the chucks are polished from contact, primarily at the large end, but free of blemishes.
For this mornings requirement, a good clout was applied with a hammer.

Can anyone suggest a specific remedy that could be applied in this situation ?

Thanks in advance for any comments or advice provided,
John

John, looks like you got a reject spindle there.

- The proper solution would be a warranty claim with H&F. If out of warranty, H&F may sell you a spare spindle - but there is no absolute guarantee the new spindle will fit much better.

- If you are after a cheap fix, try rubbing some chalk (from a chalk stick used for blsackboards) onto the male taper. If the error is not too big, this is a useful temporary fix.

- If the spindle is not hardened, you could correct it with an MT2 reamer. Trouble is, a set of good MT2 roughing and fine reamers may be too expensive. And if the spindle turns out to be hardened, you ruin the reamer. Also it is difficult to maintain an acceptably low spindle runout with a hand reamer. Grinding would be better, but it is sure to cost more than a Chinese spindle.

A rather quick (some would say dirty) method I once used to improve a damaged drillpress taper due to the PO allowing tooling to spin in the socket:

1. Take a morse taper finshing reamer;
2. insert into the damaged socket with plenty of cutting oil;
3. fit a long handled wrench to the drive square of the reamer, and locate the far end of the handle against a stop fixed to the drill press table, or against the column;
4. place a piece of flat steel on the table of the drill press underneath the reamer;
5. between the steel plate and the base of the reamer, place a hard steel ball located in the centre hole on the driving end of the reamer;
6. start the spindle - at very low speed (less than 100rpm) - and press down firmly on the drill feed lever (you may need more force than expected to get the reamer cutting);
7. cut briefly, then stop and check progress.

My result was good. I cannot remember the TIR reading afterwards, but it certainly was much better than before and never caused any trouble even with the smallest drills.

Notes:
- The long wrench handle is to minimise side loading on the reamer due to torque reaction.
- The steel ball is to allow some float of the reamer to align with the socket.
- Given that the surface of the socket is probably work hardened to some extent, the cut may be hard to start, hence heavy load may be needed to start the cut. If the reamer is allowed to rub heavily without cutting the edges may be damaged.

Cheers,
Bill

Hi John,
A thought came to me ( that's amazing ) just maybe the MT2 is to long.
My other thought was, use the hot air gun on the Spindle, then ram the Chuck in. Well that is what I did, & so far it has not dropped out.

Thanks guys for all the suggestions.

I think of the many options, the use of some Loctite could solve the fundamental problem of a loose fit at the small end.
I have some thread locker and two varieties of adhesive.

The chuck was inserted with a hefty clout by a machinists hammer this morning and the drill used for a number of 6 and 8 mm holes today without problem.

The errant taper now operates with the prospect of instant application of thread locker should it misbehave, and a ratcheting up of the medicine if the thread locker proves inadequate.

Thanks again,
John.

Firstly do both chucks go into the taper the same amount?

Are the length of taper on both chucks the same?

Have you measured the tapers on the chucks for comparison?

Have you measured the large and small bore of the taper for comparison to standard?

I would of thought if by what you mention of the inner taper being larger than the small end of the taper on your chuck/s that the large end should also be larger.

From my thoughts it would appear if the inner taper is now larger,that the taper has either worn that way or was originally like that which would indicate that the taper is/was not correct from new.

Not the most accurate fix, but on my cheapie MT2 mag drill I wrapped a bit of ally foil around the taper.Lasted for a while. Dont want it to be stuck in permanently.Slips again, just repeat the process until I come up with something better.

Pipeclay,
From memory, both chucks seemed to have about the same length of taper and entered the same amount.
They both have the same amount of tang visible in the spindle release slot.

I did not attempt to measure the chuck or spindle tapers - I must admit I would have to go back to the text books to set up a measurement, presumably with accessories on a surface plate.

As I was more interested in drilling some holes, I did not explore exactly where the size variation was.
I cleaned, felt pen marked both chucks, inserted and checked, to reveal less contact at the small end on both chucks.

As the Czech chuck has been used without problems elsewhere, and it was 'assumed' to be of better quality, I had concluded when the drill was new that the spindle taper and chuck tapers were matched, but not to the standard.
The recent discovery makes me think it is only the spindle that is out.

Perhaps before I rush in the Loctite, the next time I have a problem I will do some comparative testing between all the MT2 sockets and plugs I have in the workshop and see if I can muster the accessories for a surface plate measurement.

John

When I was a boy working in the local shipyard with older machines I was taught to wrap a single layer of newsprint around taper shanks that were not a great fit and this worked well with all but the most worn or tapers as a temporary fix.
Jim.

John you should be able to get very close to a size with a pair of inside calipers and mic rather than using a surface plate and fixtures.

Originally Posted by stix012

When I was a boy working in the local shipyard with older machines I was taught to wrap a single layer of newsprint around taper shanks that were not a great fit and this worked well with all but the most worn or tapers as a temporary fix.
Jim.

I have heard similar, but copy paper was substituted for newsprint. I have never had to try it though.
Rob.

Hmmm Pipeclay,
Your measurement suggestion has merits, I will give it a go when the chuck next ejects itself.
John

If the spindle is completely hollow from top to bottom, you could install a 'restraining bolt' made from some 1/4" all tread. You would have to tap a hole in the end of the M2 chuck tail, insert the all thread, Loctite and/or a lock nut, then washer and lock nuts on the top of the spindle. It will probably be easier if done in that order as you can easily get to the chuck tail to get the rod locked up, just swing the press head to the side and slide the all thread rod up the hole & put the top hardware on, tighten then swing the press head back into place and tighten.

Unfortunately my 5 speed Ryobi has a solid spindle and I can't be bothered trying to drill it out as I have a nice Jet these days.