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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
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    Melbourne Australia
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    Default

    P1000859.JPG

    Which brings me to this, the main body of the machine, it's too wide, too high for a container. It goes on a 20ft flat rack, If they can only find me an empty one. I had the crane booked for Saturday, and had to stand him down. I've been chasing an empty flat since last Wednesday.

    You might be wondering why that machine is smoking? I think that was from last Monday or Tuesday morning. It has a C02 fire suppression system on it. I've seen these go off before, just with vibration. Years ago at Borg Warner in Albury, I was inside a rotary transfer machine. A Sparky was just drilling holes for conduit clips, and the thing went off. I was all I could do to fall out the door.

    The machine gets a vacuum bag around it, before I erect the crate. If that was to go off, it would blow the bag apart, so I decided to discharge it. We forgot about that until after the power was pulled. So I took in a 24V DC power supply and triggered off the solenoid.

    Which brings me to what has rattled my cage tonight. There's only a few companies in town that do these vac bags and crates. It all has to be ISPM-15 treated timber. Structurally crap, but it doesn't have bugs. I'm working with one of them. I told them late last week, "don't deliver the crate", as I'm stranded with out a flat rack to put them on. I backed it up with a phone message first thing this morning.

    I had a bit of a crisis first thing this morning with another customer that's blown up a spindle, and I knocked up a few gadgets in anticipation of seeing this crate, maybe tomorrow or Wednesday.

    I got back on site around 11.00am. Stupid me, I actually drove around the block 3 times wondering why that truck in the drive way was taking so long. I couldn't park on the street as I had the trailer, with a spreader bar in it, that I needed to unload.

    Third trip around the block, said truck with name on the door same as the company I'm dealing with, passes me going the other way.

    I honestly spilt my coffee. Dirty prawns, had turned up, hurled the panels off the side of the truck, and lent them up against the side of my container. And left them sitting there in the rain.

    The same container that is awaiting pick up by a swing loader, so they can deliver me a flat rack. You might also notice the 40 footer isn't sitting in the doorway any more. I skated that back into the car spots so the swing loader can get at it again, last Friday.

    Managed to fix these pictures.

    P1000925.JPG

    P1000924.JPG

    P1000922.JPG

    P1000921.JPG


    It took me close to 4 hours to flip each one of them (5 panels), into my trailer, back them through the roller door, drill some holes for lifting lugs, then stand them up all in order. I'm back to working by myself, and there was no one on site to help. I don't know what those panels weigh, but they are all 4.5m long by 3.0m high. They might be lighter when they are dry, as they are I can barely hand lift an end. And I had new rigger gloves on. That normally makes me stronger. They all have 12mm Rud lifting lugs on them now. I have a 2T overhead crane to work with. I took my 2m spreader bar out, I just wasn't expecting to use it today.

    This thing is supposed to be on a boat by Saturday. I still need a flat rack, then I need a crane, then I need to lash it, then I need a marine surveyor to sign off on the lashing, then the bag, then the box, then a dirty big forklift to pull it into the carpark, and lift it on a low deck trailer. And if I failed to mention, the machine is so wide, the box sits off the sides of the flat rack. There's going to be some very inventive nail gun action going on there. I have 5 days.

    Regards Phil.

    P.S Do you blokes know you cant have any over hang on a trailer now. (At least in Vic.) I believe the laws been changed in recent years. I had to go and get some 75 x 100mm bearers last week. I think it was last Monday. They had them in a 4.8m lengths. And it was lunch time, so I didn't bother them to cut them.That's a 10 foot bed trailer, and I had the front right out to the tow ball, but I would have had 800mm hanging of the rear. Dirty big red flag attached. I got pinged on Whitehorse Road, just turning off East Link. $221, that is going on the bill. The farmers son in me said that was O.K It was 1.00 o'clock in the afternoon. Dry & sunny.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  3. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
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    74
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    6,132

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    Hi Phil,

    Sounds like you are having fun. Fingers crossed you make the deadline. Transport companies are all tarred with the same brush, I hope you enlightened them about their parentage

    Don't know why I can't see the pictures, I just get "Invalid Attachment"

    Ray

  4. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Dural NSW
    Age
    82
    Posts
    1,120

    Default Trailer Overhang

    Phil
    Thanks for the reminder about overhang on trailers.
    I do not know if it applies in other states, however a few weeks ago, my son in law carried an inverted alloy boat on a small trailer, with about a metre overhang each end from northern NSW to QLD Barrier Reef.
    The trip was about 12 hrs driving each way.
    Did not get picked up, but maybe just lucky !
    I will pass on your experience to him.
    regards
    Bruce

  5. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    near Rockhampton
    Posts
    4,304

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Abratool View Post
    Phil
    Thanks for the reminder about overhang on trailers.
    I do not know if it applies in other states, however a few weeks ago, my son in law carried an inverted alloy boat on a small trailer, with about a metre overhang each end from northern NSW to QLD Barrier Reef.
    The trip was about 12 hrs driving each way.
    Did not get picked up, but maybe just lucky !
    I will pass on your experience to him.
    regards
    Bruce
    The laws vary from state to state.. Victoria allows no overhang in car trailers... Qld allows overhang based on a calculation.. No doubt this will change down the track as I have found silly rules seem to start in the southern states and migrate north in the name of "harmonisation"
    Light red, the colour of choice for the discerning man.

  6. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Adelaide
    Age
    68
    Posts
    834

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Abratool View Post
    Phil
    Thanks for the reminder about overhang on trailers.
    I do not know if it applies in other states
    In SA the limits for a GVM of 4.5 T or less are a maximum 150 mm overhang at each side (total width <= 2.5 metres) and the total length of the towing vehicle, trailer and load must be less than 19 metres. If the rear overhang is more than 1.2 metres then you need a flag or some other warning at the rear of the load.

  7. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Bendigo
    Age
    51
    Posts
    662

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    Have more length to play with on the ute then the trailer. Single cab tray. The longer stuff just goes on there.

    Havent heard any rule changes there, so I just have my front overhang. Good for 6mtr. I dont see too much timber (unless you wanna include LVLs) that come in longer than that.

    Just picked up a (ex) heavy boat trailer for the truck. Put the other ute (Ford tub) on the back other day and still have at least 2 mtr in drawbar in front. Sweet!!
    www.lockwoodcanvas.com.au

    I will never be the person who has everything, not when someone keeps inventing so much cool new stuff to buy.

    From an early age my father taught me to wear welding gloves . "Its not to protect your hands son, its to put out the fire when u set yourself alight".

  8. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    1,128

    Default

    Just a follow up. Photo's in no particular order. We had to stand down on this job last week. We barely touched it. The freight forwarder couldn't find us an empty 20Ft flat rack for love or money. The 40ft container was finished last Friday week. The ship was cancelled for last Saturday, due to not having a flat rack to put the machine on.

    I finally got an empty rack around 1.00 pm yesterday. Too late in the day to find a hook.

    7.00 am this morning, I got one of my favourite meat axes on site. The purple people eater. You can keep your Franna's. This thing is just so smooth. All hydro drives. Its a twin lift out of Chicago. There is only two of them in this town. (And the country that I know of).

    Owned by the same bloke. Stevie Crain. Hows that for an irony? The guys surname is "Crain", and he does this work for a living.

    Purple is the little one, it's good for about 27T. Extendible counterweight, all by a hydraulic joy stick. That machine was on site for about 3 weeks. Hoppers Crossing back in 2012, where these machines were originally. I found the key one night. Its behind the visor. I crossed that off my bucket list. I've driven Franna's, this thing is so smooth.

    He has a big brother, called red, because he's red. That's good for mid 60T.

    Any woo, my lift was only 12+T, it doe's that on idle. I hooked him up and it was off the ground before I had a chance to turn around. I put the spreader and all the rigging up last night before leaving. All he had to do was hook up and swing over. I have a picture of him leaving at 8:01 am. Not bad for a 7:00 am start, and we had coffee.

    Vacuum bag, first thing in the morning, then we will slam the crate around it.
    Attachment 324204

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    Whilst this was all going on, the commerce part all went to hell. I learnt today what "Tran's-shipped" means. I'm just working with the freight forwarder that the German Client specified. Tran's-shipped means it goes port to port to port. In this case its only Melbourne - Singapore - Hamburg. Singapore on a vessel from here, then gets off loaded, and reloaded on a vessel heading for Europe. That's only become apparent in the past 24 hours, as final invoices / certificates of timber compliance / bill of lading / bank letters of credit start to surface.

    German Client (who is a machine dealer) has panicked that it might be sitting at a port in Singapore, and is worried about rust. Almost as the machine was hanging mid air, my phone goes off the hook. He want's direct shipping. Problem with that, is direct shipping to Hamburg isn't that common. Sure there are empty car carrier's from bringing in Merc's, VW and Audi's. Not many of then handle a flat rack with 8" of crate hanging off each side. The cost's are incredible for a single journey, AU - DE. Both methods are basically paying for 3 container spots because its over width.

    Just to cap that off, both the 40ft container and the 20ft flat are owned by the shipping company, Mediterranean. To ship it other wise means to unpack both the 40 & 20, and repack it on containers that are suitable to the next shipping company. I verbally quoted them 20K Euro to do that. Its going via Singapore now.

    I had to have the lashing signed off by a marine surveyor. He got there at noon. And I passed. I've dealt with them before. The trick is to put twice as much lashing as you think you would need, then decorate it with a bit more fluff. There's 4 sets of 10mm grade 70 chains and dogs, all with winged hooks. About all I'd use to put it on a truck and send it any where in this country. Then I decorated it with another 4 sets of 8mm chains and dogs. I'm counting 39.2 Tonnes of legal lashing. I had a spare packet of 5, 2.5t nylon webbing ratchet straps up my sleeve in case he knocked me back.

    Believe it or not, back in 2012, I packed two of these machines for export to the US. I forget the marine surveyors name, he was Captain Peter Something. If you ever bump into anyone in the fork, rigging, crane, export industry. They will know the story of Captain Peter Feathersword. Because that's what I nicknamed him, and I've told this story to anyone that would listen. Those machine's where little brothers to these at 7 tonne. I ended up with about 70T worth of chain on them.

  9. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Riddells Creek
    Posts
    300

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    Can't see the images Machtool, do they work for you?

  10. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Bendigo
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    72
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    1,986

    Default

    I can't see them either.... sorry Phil.
    How did the job finish up? Are you going to Germany to unpack it all?
    Cheers,
    Joe
    9"thicknesser/planer, 12" bench saw, 2Hp Dusty, 5/8" Drill press, 10" Makita drop saw, 2Hp Makita outer, the usual power tools and carpentry hand tools...

  11. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    1,128

    Default

    No idea why the picture's don't work. They show as I'm making the post, and they show when I go back into edit.

    But they turn up as an invalid link. This happened the other week, then by next morning they worked. I'll stick them on photobucket when I get the chance.

    Tired, hungry & cold. I've been back in the office fighting out some of those commercial issues. Its almost to late to order a pizza at this time of night.

    Regards Phil.

  12. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
    Age
    71
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    1,469

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machtool View Post
    I had to have the lashing signed off by a marine surveyor. He got there at noon. And I passed. I've dealt with them before. The trick is to put twice as much lashing as you think you would need, then decorate it with a bit more fluff.
    Umm, Phil, I think you don't actually know what's required on stuff on ships. Have you spent any time at sea? Reason I ask is, I've spent a *lot* of time in the Southern Ocean aboard ships with 20' containers on deck, flat packs, custom cradles etc etc. There is NO SUCH THING as too much lashing. Seriously. I've had gear torn off the deck that you couldn't even budge alongside the wharf, chained down. That's what happens when 4m of solid green water comes over the stern. First things start working loose, then they disappear. We got to the point where we'd weld all our lab containers to the decks and weld the top corners to each adjacent container with heavy angle iron as well as chain them down, as well as having them locked to the deck pockets with twist locks. It was a PITA but at least they'd stay put. PDW

  13. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
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    Reposting those pictures from a few days ago. Lets see if this works. Please refer back to post # 37.

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...46#post1803546


    P1000963.JPG

    P1000965.JPG

    P1000971.JPG

    P1000956.JPG

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    P1000958.JPG

  14. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
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    Default

    Lets time warp back to 19th Nov 2012, and Peter can tell me what I dont know about keeping a machine safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Umm, Phil, I think you don't actually know what's required on stuff on ships.
    Umm, Peter, I think you are just using the opportunity to tell one of your salty sea-dog story's. I saw that movie too, but your no George Clooney. You're far better looking.

    I'll show you the lashing that was rejected and you tell me, how much I don't know about this caper.

    Lets start here. Flat racks in this country, you get what you are given, it's like a box of chocolates. See the two blue beams, at the left of this next picture. They are the main structural element of the flat rack. Every thing of load carrying capacity is welded off them. They were a perfect width, see how the machine over laps them. In behind the red positioning plate, under the lifting lug, is the machine anchor point for affixing the levelator's. Thats the primary position for the machine to sit on its foundations.

    Under those two beam's, we cut and drilled a piece of 25 x 100mm flat bar, to the pitch of the anchors. With that plate under both beams. I tied the machine to it with 4 - M24 High Tensile all-thread studs of about 350mm length. Tightened with a 36mm AF flogging spanner, then double nutted as lock nuts. One plate across the rear, picking up the rear two anchors, same again but with a different pitch for the front. Its the strongest part of the machine, and that flat rack, 30mm plate weldment's into the machine base.

    I actually jacked the rack up a foot, and put it on red gum blocks to scoot underneath it to position / hold up the plates.

    P1000009.JPG

    I'd have shipped it on that alone. That's how they come in as new, but on a fabricated metal skid. Not a chain, binder or webbing strap in sight. Just 4 M24 bolts.

    For two reasons.

    1/. To the untrained eye it would appear that the machine wasn't attached, and that was bound to be a problem somewhere in transit.

    2/. I'd quoted lashing in my quotation.

    So I decorated it. 2 x 2.5t webs. Notice how they are endless loops, two chords, up and back. You could make an argument that doubles their capacity.

    P1000002.JPG

    10mm Grade 70 rated at 6,000kg for a single strand across the front Notice they are endless. Effectively doubling them. The first picture ( above) shows the rear, also 10mm and double stranded.
    P1000010.JPG

    Captain Feathersword, according to his calculations, (Not that he had ever seen a lathe of any kind). The centre of gravity on this machine, is just below my knee's where it says MS32. That's the electrical cabinet up there, its 5 sheets of 2mm sheet metal, plus its electrical contents There would be lucky to be 750 kg's up there

    Index Thursday 11th Oct 004.jpg

    We lift them from 600 mm off the ground, and they don't fall over. What does that tell you about the centre of gravity?


    Index 2.jpg

    Guess what, He knocked me back.The captain says, you cant count those 4 - M24 studs, and the heavy plate under them. That's not an official lashing point. Good luck if you ever run into the Captain, and your welding to the deck. That's not official. It counts for nothing.

    (For others, you need some sort of certificate signed off by one of these marine surveyors, before you can get your stuff on a boat).

    That's machine was a miserable 6T. I had 23T of lashing on it, in its single stranded configuration. That's close enough to my 4:1 rule. Even if you ignore that fact that it was bolted to the deck. And double stringed.

    This prick had me triple the chains on that. I had to put shackles and Dee rings on the rack lashing points just to feed in enough chain. To his specific instructions, I had 3 sets of 6T (18T) rated lashing going to the same lashing point, that is rated to 5T.

    Can I ask a guestion? Have you ever dealt with one of these independant marine surveyor that deal's with commercial shippage? Or are just telling me about CSIRO when you can weld to your decks, on your own vessel's, untill your hearts content?

    If you cant tell all ready, I'm offended. Welding to decks. Wheres that in my world?

    The mention of welding is iralivant to this thread. No prick is welding anything to one of my machines. But your story of 4m of crashing solid water was a good one.

    How do I contact the captain of the large container ship thats just going from here to Hamburg? I'm starting to feel like those two useless pricks, with the binoculars on the Titanic than didn't see the iceburg, if they are to expect rolling wave's crashing 4m accoss the bow.

    Phil.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #44
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    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
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    74
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    Hi Phil,

    Impressive stuff, I like the belts and braces approach. Has it sailed yet?

    Ray

  16. #45
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    near Rockhampton
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    U see someone working more then 2m off the ground without a 100 page safe work statement, full safety harness, safety net and stand by ambulance.. I would never do anything risky like that
    Light red, the colour of choice for the discerning man.

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