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  1. #1
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    Default How to make this? Maybe a step by step idiots guide please!

    Guys,
    My first real project, born out of necessity. Its a propshaft / tailshaft extension off a 1955 Land Rover and is to be turned from a 100mm DIA 1045 steel and is about 100mm long (my stock is currently about 120mm).

    Im thinking the following methodology but am guessing really. Id really appreciate some advice on what to change below or a correct description on how to end up with the item and not a whole load of swarf and bits in the scrap bin!

    My thinking...
    1. In 3 jaw, face the end and turn over 50% of its length to round
    2. Turn around and put in 4 jaw - indicate to centre.
    3. Face the end and turn remaining length to same diameter as bit already round.
    4. Centre drill and then drill progressively larger holes right through and bore out (to approx 30mm but its not a critical diameter).
    5. Face off the edge to get down to 100mm length
    6. With LH tool, cut away to form right hand flange
    7. With RH tool, cut away as much as possible to begin forming left hand flange.
    8. Lightly mark PCD for 4 bolt holes on outside edge of right hand flange.
    9. Remove from 4 jaw, turn around & chuck up on flange and re-centre with indicator.
    10. Form Left hand flange
    11. Lightly mark PCD for 4 bolt holes on outside edge of right hand flange.
    12. Remove from lathe, mark out 8 bolt holes and drill in Drill press

    Any help greatly appreciated.

    Propshaft Extender.pdf

    R
    Jon

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  3. #2
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    Default

    One of the biggest things about this machining caper is learning how to plan your sequence of operations. That list does not look bad. Two things that I would suggest you consider are
    • Slice the end of the bar off in a band saw if you have one - a 15mm disc of 1" diameter stock will come in handy for something one day. If you face it off you are just wasting it.
    • I'd be tempted to leave drilling the centre hole until last. The reason being is that with that material in place you can use a centre to support the end of the job while taking out the material from the sides (resisting the side forces). Drilling a hole will just push against the chuck so less support will be needed.

    Michael

  4. #3
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    Hi Jon,
    If it was me I would bore it out then machine up a tapered arbour, press it on and turn the whole lot in one hit between centres.
    You will get zero run out and if it doesn't quite fit you can replace it on the arbour and remove that little bit more.

    Phil

  5. #4
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    Ueee is offline Blacksmith, Cabinetmaker, Machinist, Messmaker
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    Default

    What Phil said.....

    The beauty with the tapered arbor is that you can flip it around as many times as you need and it will still be concentric.
    You may want to make a 1" or 25mm arbor though, it may be more handy later on than 30mm, or maybe not!

    I would probably rough a lot of the guts out with a parting tool, but then i have a much bigger lathe at hand than your Hercus.

    Ew
    1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.

  6. #5
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    Default

    Your method seems overly complicated to me, but it is also late at night and I am ready for bed.. Also consider the grip of the chuck and if you are holding it in reverse jaws, and it is not supported at the end, watch it get thrown out of the chuck...

    I think Phil's idea is how I would proceed when two faces at opposite ends should be in alignment... I would rough it all out first thought with the three jaw and tailstock centre. That lets you use all the hp at your disposal..
    Light red, the colour of choice for the discerning man.

  7. #6
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    Default

    Hi Jon,

    Is there any reason to bore it out at all ? I've seen something similar and it was a solid casting. Having said that I only have a small lathe, so I would be tempted to centre both ends and machine between centres only turning it round to do the other flange. I agree with Michael about using a bandsaw to cut nearly to length then machine the waist and one end first.
    Best Regards:
    BaronJ.

  8. #7
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    I suppose one of the 1st questions should be what machining experience do you have?
    Do you have access to a bandsaw?
    Do you have the ability to machine a mandrel to hold this part if required?
    Can you supply dimensions for the part?
    How critical is the machined section between the flanges?
    How critical is the OD of the flanges?
    What are the important parts of the job?

  9. #8
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    G'day Jon,
    Is there a reason why you decided to machine this from a solid piece rather than fabricate it?
    I would have thought it would be much more economical (and easier) to use a section of an old prop-shaft and make the two flanges from plate.
    Cheers,
    Greg.

  10. #9
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    It is a prop shaft extension. 2 flanges to mount in position. Concentricity of holes/locating diameters and balance are all that would need to precise. Length less so. That is if I understand the requirements correctly.

    Dean

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwijibo99 View Post
    G'day Jon,
    Is there a reason why you decided to machine this from a solid piece rather than fabricate it?
    I would have thought it would be much more economical (and easier) to use a section of an old prop-shaft and make the two flanges made from plate.
    Cheers,
    Greg.
    All the prop shafts I have dealt with have been quite thin. I would not attempt to weld one myself. I did think of using heavy walled pipe as this would give more leeway for welding. Cleaning up the welds on the lathe while machining the ends should help to balance, but the pipe would have to be concentric to the flanges. A cheaper way to go, but more room for mistakes me thinks.

    Dean

  12. #11
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    Default professional

    Hi

    Although it is a interesting machining exercise for you , It may be worthwhile getting a quote form a specialist who does this work. mANY PROP shafts are altered for custom cars and hot rods . Should not cost that much

    I have a FEW SERIES 1 Land Rovers too ......... 80"models . They are built like a meccano set

  13. #12
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    Default

    Wow, what a lot of responses in a quick time frame. Many thanks. I’ll try to answer...


    Quote Originally Posted by pipeclay View Post
    I suppose one of the 1st questions should be what machining experience do you have?
    Do you have access to a bandsaw?
    Do you have the ability to machine a mandrel to hold this part if required?
    Can you supply dimensions for the part?
    How critical is the machined section between the flanges?
    How critical is the OD of the flanges?
    What are the important parts of the job?

    Pipeclay,
    1. Very little experience!
    2. I have no bandsaw Just a hacksaw and 4” angle grinder!
    3. Mandrel? Not sure what making one involves. Maybe that answers the question!
    4/5. Dimensions are not critical, concentricity is. Length would be OK within 2mm - 5mm. Diameter of flange it to match adjoining propshaft & transomer box flanges (nominally 100mm). Wall thickness of the space between the flanges will be to about 10mm and positioned such that a ratchet can hold the bold / nut securing shaft to this bit.
    6. Important part is two-fold. Firstly no vibration from run-out and secondly that I learn from making it.



    Quote Originally Posted by kwijibo99 View Post
    Is there a reason why you decided to machine this from a solid piece rather than fabricate it?
    I would have thought it would be much more economical (and easier) to use a section of an old prop-shaft and make the two flanges from plate.
    Cheers,
    Greg.

    Perhaps it would be more economical, but I can’t weld (yet), I do have a lathe, a wanting to learn and my next door neighbour had some stock to give me



    Quote Originally Posted by Oldneweng View Post
    It is a prop shaft extension. 2 flanges to mount in position. Concentricity of holes/locating diameters and balance are all that would need to precise. Length less so. That is if I understand the requirements correctly.

    Correct


  14. #13
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    Default

    Might pay you to practice setting up with the 4 jaw first to see how you find it.

    If you have a suitable piece of material to practice on,machine the OD take it out then rotate and set up to see how true you can get it.

    Are the lengths of the flanges critical or just there so you can use bolts?


    If the length of the flange is not critical you should try and hold as much in your chuck as possible (would be good if you didnt have to reverse the jaws.

    What you really want to do is as much machining in one set up as possible.

    It seems that you will have to face to length, for this just hold the material with the full length of the jaw,face one end then turn in chuck placing the machined face against the chuck body and then face to length.

    If you need to turn the OD to size it want matter if its not running true at this stage.

    I would now centre drill and support the out end with the tailstock centre,(it may not be needed depending on the amount held by the chuck) but still centre drill it.

    I would then commence machining the centre section to the OD you want and also the thickness of the flange ( machine as close to the flange end held by the chuck as well,try to get a good finish on the OD near the chuck as you should set up to this OD when you turn it around.)

    After removing the centre section of material I would then machine the flange OD and machine the spigot on the face.

    If you are drilling by hand and not on a mill I would also mark the PCD with a sharp tool.

    After removing any burrs I would then turn it in your chuck and set up to the machined OD between the flanges, making sure that the finished face is hard against the chuck body ( a piece of timber pushed against the outer face supported by the tailstock will be okay to use while setting up ).

    After you have the OD running true and the face square ,centre drill this end and support if need whilst you finish any of the small OD and face the back of the flange.

    Once you have this done then repeat the operations for the outer flange face.

    Once the flange is finished you can drill and bore.

    Do you have a set of dividers to use for marking the position of your 4 holes or are you using another method.

    If you have a drill that is long enough you will only need to mark the holes in one flange and just drill through.

    If the holes are clearance drill them a little bigger than what you really need to make it a little easier to line up (going by the sketch it looks like the spigot on the faces do the locating.

    There are other ways to do this but with your limited tooling they may be more difficult for you.

  15. #14
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    Default

    Why do you need this prop shaft extender? Have you lengthened the chassis or something? Would it not be better practice to lengthen the shaft itself?

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ventureoverland View Post

    3. Mandrel? Not sure what making one involves. Maybe that answers the question!
    Hi Jon,
    A tapered mandrel is a length of round bar set up between centres with a taper of typically around 0.0005" per inch.
    Good old Mr. Rucker made one on his youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WLai2inSpM
    If you made one it wouldn't be a waste of bar as it can be re-machined to make a smaller one again and again.
    If you went down this path, the entire extender is machined in one hit and gives you great concentricity.
    As the guys have said, you can rough it out in the 4 or 3 jaw chuck but then complete the machining on the mandrel.
    You can buy the mandrels hardened and ground but it would be horribly expensive (I think) so you could make your own out of a piece of mild steel.
    I had occasion to make one for a diesel engine driving a massive pump for a fish farm once. I fabricated the spool then made a mandrel to machine it up.
    This was many years ago and it is still running nicely.

    Phil

    I for some reason thought Keith Rucker had turned a tapered mandrel but he has turned a parallel one.
    It is basically the same but to get the taper, a slight offset of the tailstock is all that is needed.
    The last pic on this page is the real ones.
    9x20 Lathe Mandrels & Arbors

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