Thread: A Novel Idea For Those That Can't Afford A Sensitive Level

That is not a very sensitive level... Better then nothing I guess...

Model Engineers Workshop did a article on making your own level vials.. It had a jig made up to grind the inside of the tube...

I realise that it's not as good as my Starrett, But I thought there are a lot of people on this forum that couldn't justify spending $300.00 odd dollars.
I appreciate what you are saying though Richard.

With a of diddling you could get t pretty good I would assume though, which would be good enough for lot of people.

I just thought it was worth putting up as I had no seen I done in this way before.

Thank for your input as I will have to go back through my library f MEW and read the aticle as I don't remember reading it.
Should be an interesting read and possible project.

Matt

many yrs ago before cheap 2m levels were avaliable I made one for myself using a length of alu sliding door stile and the bubbles came from cheep plastic line levels.
I still use them and the last one I made 5yrs ago cost less than $25

Originally Posted by matthew_g

I realise that it's not as good as my Starrett, But I thought there are a lot of people on this forum that couldn't justify spending $300.00 odd dollars.

$20 bucks at Bunning's would get you something with more accuracy than that.

How long do we figure that was? It was a pretty small machine he had it sitting on. I'm guessing 6 inches. He put a 6 thou shim under one end, and it only moved two divisions.

And after all that, he didn't spin it 180 degrees end for end, to actually establish a level.

Regards Phil.

It looks to be only about .003"/foot, (maybe even more?) as RC says not exactly precision. The cheap asian levels from CTC are not exactly expensive if you want a fairly sensitive level.
If you want to make your own there was a place i think Joe got some vials from, very sensitive and not too expensive. I can't find the link (it has been posted before) maybe Joe can provide it?

Cheers,
Ew

Originally Posted by matthew_g

I realise that it's not as good as my Starrett, But I thought there are a lot of people on this forum that couldn't justify spending $300.00 odd dollars.
I appreciate what you are saying though Richard.

I realise that, but why go to all that trouble for something not very useful...

The 0.02mm/m vials here are 20UK pounds http://www.leveldevelopments.com/pro.../ground-vials/

Originally Posted by Ueee

If you want to make your own there was a place i think Joe got some vials from, very sensitive and not too expensive.

It could be either be Geier & Bluhm. or W.A Moyer.

Did I miss something or are we being a bit over critical here?
I think what this bloke has done is pretty good for a home made job and deserves credit where it's due.
As presented he has what looks like an 8” base with ½” divisions on the vial and gets three divisions for a .006” feeler gauge, that’s .002” per division over 8”.
If you wanted a bit more precision you could easily make the divisions 1/4” that’s 0.001” per division and 0.0005” per division if you make them 1/8”, neither of which would be that difficult.
Matthew even said this isn’t as good as a super flash store (or ebay) bought one so what’s the point of getting so excited?
It’s a lot better than one you don’t have at all and I think I’d back it any day against a Bunnies level.
Take a chill pill fellas.
On a side note, does the bloke in the video look like Jarrod from Storage Wars?
Cheers,
Greg.

Originally Posted by kwijibo99

Did I miss something or are we being a bit over critical here?

Nope, it's just that this is a pretty tough and savvy crowd to try and impress with a precision level, every second man and his dog around here has Wyler Frame Levels..

And yes, he does look a bit like that guy...

Ray

I would be interested in just how good you could make this.
It was a pretty rough adjustment on the video.
If we assume tube is bent(which it almost certainly will be at the level we are talking about).
Work out which way it is bent.
Put the bend down in the middle.
Then bend away.

Though I am a little worried about needing to wear safety glasses while using my level.

Stuart

p.s. I should add I know what its like lvling a plate to the sort of level we are talking about with 1mm pitch threads 400mm or so apart. I assume the tube will need to be bent about the same amount.

This type of level does not have a fixed sensitivity calibrated in mm/m per division like we are used to with curved vials.

This type of level is "adjustable sensitivity". Without any preload from the two adjuster screws left and right the glass tube is straight and has in theory an infinite sensitivity (it behaves digital with the bubble going either to the left or right end, with no stable middle position). Only when applying a preload will the glass tube bend around its wooden center support, it begins working like vial. The more one bends the glass tube the less sensitive it gets.

It can certainly be made to work in a pinch. But I can see several problems with it:
- the lines cannot be calibrated. Well, one can calibrate for a single use session, but it will not stay calibrated for long.
- the sensitivity adjustment and the zero setting adjusment are intertwined. One touches the one setting, and the other changes too. This downside could be avoided though by a slightly changed design. The way it is now, it is probably very fiddly to set up.
- the glass tube is probably not ground inside. Most glass tubes are drawn, meaning there are minute waviness and iperfections in the glass surface. This means that even if the glass tube was only very slightly preloadad for an in theory very fine sensitivity, the air bubble on the inside will "stick" to the waves and imperfections of the glass and move in jerks instead of providing a sensitive, smooth and repeatable indication. Some experimentation with different glass sources may be necessary. Glass tubes used for NMR could probably the most promising, as nthese are manufactured to be very straight and uniform (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMR_tube).
- the massive Aluminium block frame is probably not the best choice regarding thermal expansion...

As Mathew G said, not everybody can justify spending $300 for a level, or even $160 for Hafco's cheapest.

I bought this one for $67:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/150mm...864203835.html. The 200mm level is roughly the same price and if you have a close look it's identical to Hafcos, except for the MX sticker.

Regardless of how useful it is, this guy is using his noggin. I'd bet his lathe is probably truer than most people's lathes - how many people with lathes actually true them after installation?

Originally Posted by kwijibo99

Did I miss something or are we being a bit over critical here?
I think what this bloke has done is pretty good for a home made job and deserves credit where it's due.
As presented he has what looks like an 8” base with ½” divisions on the vial and gets three divisions for a .006” feeler gauge, that’s .002” per division over 8”.
If you wanted a bit more precision you could easily make the divisions 1/4” that’s 0.001” per division and 0.0005” per division if you make them 1/8”, neither of which would be that difficult.
Matthew even said this isn’t as good as a super flash store (or ebay) bought one so what’s the point of getting so excited?
It’s a lot better than one you don’t have at all and I think I’d back it any day against a Bunnies level.
Take a chill pill fellas.
On a side note, does the bloke in the video look like Jarrod from Storage Wars?
Cheers,
Greg.

I agree.

Originally Posted by th62

As Mathew G said, not everybody can justify spending $300 for a level, or even $160 for Hafco's cheapest.

I bought this one for $67:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/150mm...864203835.html. The 200mm level is roughly the same price and if you have a close look it's identical to Hafcos, except for the MX sticker.

Regardless of how useful it is, this guy is using his noggin. I'd bet his lathe is probably truer than most people's lathes - how many people with lathes actually true them after installation?

I like when someone thinks out an idea and comes up with a solution. It might not always be the best one and I read some very valid points in some of the other comments. I am not even going to pretend I know what I am talking about here cause I'm only a wood worker but I liked it for the above reasons

Originally Posted by th62

I'd bet his lathe is probably truer than most people's lathes - how many people with lathes actually true them after installation?

In you tube Guy's defence, he only named the video of it a machinist's level. But then he went on to verbally call it a "high sensitive level" Machinist's levels typically top out at 5 thou per foot. Starrett, Lufkin. B & S have all done them for a million years.

I'm blaming Matthew , it was he that called it precision.

But you blokes are kidding yourselve's. How can it be a level, if you never knew enough to spin it end to end 180 degree's? A brick layer knows that.

I'll tell you why, he didn't even know better than to let the wood fulcrum float away to the left hand side, so it wasn't even in the center. That gizmo was never going to pass a spin test. It just wont repeat, if the fulcrum wasn't on centre. I thought he could have banged in a selftapper to stop the fulcrum floating.

Lets not forget the use of liquid butane. Temperature / pressure / evaporation features of that is a wonderfull to maintain a constant bubble lenght.

Did I not hear him say it leaks? It was empty when he started. Good luck to you smokers with butane. (Which I note he is, imediately before he fills it). And a bubble that gets longer, as it leaks, thats a hugely wonderful feature. For those of you that can level / shim / adjust a lathe in 4 minutes. I guess thats not a problem. Could you possibly use a worse gas. Glycol / Glyserene has worked for the past two centuries.

Originally Posted by kwijibo99

It’s a lot better than one you don’t have at all and I think I’d back it any day against a Bunnies level..

Next time your in there, take a look at the US made Empire blue levels.. 0.0005 per inch, so 6 thou per foot. Its only a thou away from a Starrett's machinists level.

I also think your math was a touch on the underdog thing. Thats a tiny 3 in one machine. Would you have us believe the cross slide in 8 inches wide? Then he goes on at 4:21 to tell us about "before the fire kicks in. Its aluminium, ding ding ding???? and probably been machined on the 3 in One. Would you like to tell me thats flat? With a fast expanding gas. With a fulcrum that isn't in centre, or knowing enough to spin it end to end to test.

Thats the problem with U-tube. Any clown that has a camera is now a guru, no matter how little knowedge they know.
Case in Point: Here's a wood wacker.

Originally Posted by DaveTTC

I agree.

I like when someone thinks out an idea and comes up with a solution. It might not always be the best one and I read some very valid points in some of the other comments. I am not even going to pretend I know what I am talking about here cause I'm only a wood worker but I liked it for the above reasons

"But I liked it for the above reasons" Cant work wood to save my life, but humour me. If I come up with a gizmo, say 45deg a corner, and I could get the corner with in 1/8 inch of joining up. That would be O/K wouldn't it.

Any way you look at it, this is a gizmo, with its Andy Warhol 15 minutes of fame. Aluminium and Butane. Good luck with that solution. You blokes are just waisting your time with this Mickey Mouse solution's.