Thread: Offered a machine shop job but shocked at the pay offer

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

I would despair if I had to raise a family now and try to do it on one wage.

Phil

I wonder if it has anything to do with female participation in the workforce.. Years and years ago, woman were expected to work when single, then get married at a young age, then stop working and raise a family.... Things like house prices were based around this model of a single income family could buy and pay off a house..

Nowadays woman work and work and work in paid employment, thus houses have two incomes, and now can afford to pay much more for a house, pushing up house prices significantly.... Also families with young children get massive tax concessions over singles, giving the families even more money to spend on houses.. Then you get overseas people buying new houses (AFAIK they cannot buy existing houses) again driving up the market..





When I was working on the waterfront casually where we were grabbing a sling, then putting it through a loop on a bag and putting the sling back on the chain... The lowest wage rate was $31 an hour for bilge cleaner 4th class type employment.. And you had meal allowance, and we had some bonus I could never work out what it was, but apparently it was paid just for turning up... Plus there was minimum hours meaning that if you got to work, you got paid for your shift even if you only worked 1/2 an hour and got instructed to go home.. This job has now since gone which to be honest I had enough of it anyway..I still work near the waterfront but in my old casual job I have always had which is a bit more involved then wharfie work and a lot more enjoyable..

Originally Posted by robbo37

"dumb ass" people

I don't want to be pedantic, but we are in Australia and the word is a r s e

But you are

i thought your word would not get past the moderators ...hence ass..every one knows what it means!

Originally Posted by Opelblues2

Good evening everybody.
just read this thread from the beginning to end, I would like to put my fifty cents in. well last weekend I helped my mum pack up the last of the bits and pieces for there move to Brisbane, I found my first pay slip in a box of pay slips dad has kept- at the moment i'm going through them to show my daughter what we were paid

1983 Woolworths trollies pusher, December school holidays, hour rate $3.89 no tax
1985 Start electrical app "group Board" - $4.15 p/h min Tax
1986 switched trades Boilermaker/blacksmith App group Board" - $3.90 p/h min Tax
1987 second year $4.10 p/h + $60 Tool allowance
1988 third year $4.85 /h + $85 tool allowance
1999 joined the Army, Trade allowance $6.98 p/h - 3 meals a day, bed, bath, rifle, clothing, orders, and brain supplied all green
can't remember the next two Years and no payslips that I can find
1993 weekly pay slips around $425.69
1994 parole for good behaviour left army - unemployed - rode GS1000 around Australia
for the next couple of years I worked for many people welding for food and bed as i travelled
1996 fell in love, got married and became a dad to a little Girl, weekly income avg - $2500 per week - contractor
1999 do viced weekly income $0.00
From 2000 to 2012 around $560 take home
From 2012 to now, I have been working for the same family, in the beginning delivering bread and papers to the Pioneer Valley Shops, and out to the 3 mines, Nebo and Glenden, 600km a day, 6 days a week on a hour rate, the boss asked me one day what would I like to be payed on a fixed income In the new part of the company and I told him - $24 p/h + holidays + super + clothing + 10 days sick leave and I live in one of the boss houses. I do over time but I don't asked for pay. why because im well looked after, I try to live in my means.

That's not too bad a deal. Assume your vehicle is supplied? That would have to be worth 20K a year. No rent and assume no gas, water, electricity, that would be worth another 15K a year. I think the OP would probably be happy with a similar deal! Simon

Originally Posted by simonl

That's not too bad a deal. Assume your vehicle is supplied? That would have to be worth 20K a year. No rent and assume no gas, water, electricity, that would be worth another 15K a year. I think the OP would probably be happy with a similar deal! Simon

Ha ha, yeah Simon.

That would certainly change things for the better. Mortgage - gone, gas - gone, electric - gone, and a load more.

And for a driving / delivery job where I don't need all that focus and knowledge, bliss. The shop owner I mentioned lost a $900 tool when one of his top employees had a lapse of concentration.

Keith.

Got to say after reading the offerings here, there is one thing not mentioned and I am not singling out anyone, People have to learn to live within their means. If you can only afford a $500000 house don't spend $600000, if you can only afford a 2nd hand car don't buy a new one, if you can only afford 2 kids don't have 3. Pretty simple Maths really.

I agree with what you are saying. It maes sense, more to some than others but a mortgage can last 25 years and many things can change long after you made the decision to buy a house that you can afford. Same same with kids. I always say kids are like pets from hell, cost a fortune, live longer than 12 years and its not socially acceptable to put them down when they no longer suite your lifestyle! Seriously though my mortgage and my 2 kids were finNcial committments made based on my current (back then) wages. If I lost my job I would be screwed!!! Not a big demand for firefighters other than the two main government fire agencies. My skills are not necessarily transferable and there is no way I would get a wage im on now in private industry. Not likely to happen but we have a backup plan.... its called sell the house and down size and enjoy the memories of things that 90% of the world population never had a chance at!

Im not rich but Im very lucky )

Simon

Originally Posted by Auskart

Got to say after reading the offerings here, there is one thing not mentioned and I am not singling out anyone, People have to learn to live within their means. If you can only afford a $500000 house don't spend $600000, if you can only afford a 2nd hand car don't buy a new one, if you can only afford 2 kids don't have 3. Pretty simple Maths really.

Thing is the basis of this thread is not along those lines, quite the opposite actually. As the OP the expenses I have are already existing and have been paid for from the income of my business. A job opportunity was offered but the in hand pay did not cover existing expenses.

What you are talking about is when someone has $xxx coming in each week but then they decide to go and spend $xxx++ That is completely opposite.

Maybe that is why it has not been mentioned in this thread.

Keith.

Originally Posted by simonl

I always say kids are like pets from hell, cost a fortune, live longer than 12 years and its not socially acceptable to put them down when they no longer suite your lifestyle!

I've got to memorise that one Simon

Keith.

Originally Posted by jhovel

I agree with most of the arguments put forward here so far, but they are mising some of the puzzle pieces: Merceds, BMW and Volkswagens ARE manufactured in CHina - becasue they too can;t compete with the low pruduction costs there either.
The reason? OH&S, risk assessments and paperwork in EUrope. ANd guess what? Most European countries have MUCH higher unemployment then Australia.....
WHat I hate about the systems we have here now is that they don;t actually do much about workplace safety at all - they just shift the blame to the employees - to keep the compensation premiums low....

That is just rubbish. All of the above manufacturers have car manufacturing plants in Germany, F/ing big ones too. Furthermore, Germany's manufacturing sector, as a percentage of GDP, is roughly 4 times larger than Australia's! If "the reason" was OH&S legislation it seems more than a little interesting that Malawi has a much larger manufacturing sector (by GDP). I'm sure that fact is cold comfort to one of my sponsored children who lives there

I come from a long line of business owners and managers, including my wife's business, and have a degree in the same myself. Meanwhile I was a tradesman yet am a PAYE employee now, so think I'm qualified to speak from a position to sit on all three fences. Based on that I'd say it's a very complicated area, with no one simple "reason". Anyone who thinks those who earn "big money" are doing so because they woke up one morning and suddenly found themselves earning that money are so divorced from reality as to be laughable.

I think the original question/comment was fair enough but for what it's worth I would respectfully suggest this forum would be far better if people spent a little more time putting up examples of what they're doing in their own workshops, than trying to solve/explain the world's problems in endless arguments.

Around these parts, police officers and registered nurses are considered low income workers....and government, both local and State is considering subsidizing housing for them. Interestingly, starting salaries there, are more than the original poster's! Regional v Melbourne/Sydney cost of living might skew opinions on what is a "good" wage.

Originally Posted by Hunch

Around these parts, police officers and registered nurses are considered low income workers....and government, both local and State is considering subsidizing housing for them. Interestingly, starting salaries there, are more than the original poster's! Regional v Melbourne/Sydney cost of living might skew opinions on what is a "good" wage.

I've lived in both Sydney and Melbourne and to be honest I don't think the cost of living is all that different. Sure property prices are but not as much as they used to be and in any case just because you live in Sydney does not mean you have a mortgage 30 higher than if you lived in Melbourne. You may live further out or in a smaller house.

The whole Sydney swans equalisation thing is a scam. I'm not sure how it works with people working for Federal agencies but I can't imagine you would get a pay cut if you moved from Sydney to Darwin, for example. If they wanted to look after our so called poor cousins working in the force or as a nurse, then being able to salary sacrifice part of their mortgage would help. It's already in place with many agencies anyway. Any of these government jobs will not make you rich but you can still make a good living. One thing I learnt from my wife is, it's not how much you earn, it's what you do with it once it's earn!

Simon

Originally Posted by Glenn.Visca

I respectfully disagree.

The car industry is dying because us aussies have reduced our purchases of Australian cars by more than half over the last 15 years.

I see these media commentators bleating about lack of government support and what a travesty it is the car industry is moving out.

We all had the power to keep it ... But ... We all choose to purchase something else.

I am aware of the industry plan set in motion by Senator Button to cut subsidies etc., but, as I drive down the road now all I see are SUVs (very few of which ever make their way off black top, tow a caravan or horse float).

Family cars were the mainstay ... But ... I think I would like a Ford Kluger or Toyota Prado thanks.

I started working at the Holden plant in Dandenong in 1987 (for an IT company wholly owned by General Motors).

Slowly slowly we watched the rationalisation of all the vehicle assembly plants ... Until only Elizabeth remained building Commodore and its derivatives.

Oh .. and in case you are wondering, I have owned 5 of them since the early 90s.

So I wonder ... Do we all sit here and complain about Aussie industries closing down ... and then in the same breath jump on eBay to purchase something direct from Hong Kong or China ... Because its cheaper ?

Hmmmm

Well ... That is my view anyway ...

The reason the buying stopped was Holden and Ford both refused to build in Australia the type of car that the punter wanted to buy. If they had shifted emphasis to a smaller car range and some SUV style vehicles they would in all likelihood still be viable companies. In fact Ford had a go with the Territory and it was a raging success for a while but the lack of forward vision by them when they did not follow up with the model variants such as a diesel soon enough meant the Territory went out of favour.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

The reason the buying stopped was Holden and Ford both refused to build in Australia the type of car that the punter wanted to buy. If they had shifted emphasis to a smaller car range and some SUV style vehicles they would in all likelihood still be viable companies. In fact Ford had a go with the Territory and it was a raging success for a while but the lack of forward vision by them when they did not follow up with the model variants such as a diesel soon enough meant the Territory went out of favour.

I occasionally do some consulting work on what's nowadays called 'big data'. Because of that I've been privy to various interesting bits of information over the years.

Without saying much, I can say that building big cars rather than small ones was a deliberate marketing decision based on the amount of profit per individual vehicle.

Like a lot of decisions, it worked very well in the short to medium term. Long term, time to shut up shop and go somewhere else.

There's nothing new about any of this. We've been having these arguments on PM for over a decade. Wages are a reflection of demand for skills, in theory. In practice, they're held up in a lot of cases by artificial means like awards. Upshot is, dropping employment and 457 visa workers. Shrug. It's the way of the world. I've seen it in software development, huge amount of jobs gone to India and similar. No point complaining about it, you just need to be better and besides - I worked in the USA back when the AUD was worth 0.50 USD so what goes around comes around.

If you want to work in metal trades in Australia and make decent money, you need to either work offshore if you can get a job, or work in your own business and sell your own product, or have a massive competitive advantage over other people in your chosen niche. Or be a price taker, not a price setter.

Of course running your own business is hard and quite risky, much easier to be an employee.

And please - can we stay right away from real estate prices? What I'd really love to see is a massive price crash all round but then, I don't have a mortgage and I bought my place to live in, not to make money from, so the 'market value' is completely irrelevant to me......

PDW

Back on the point about politics ruining this country (not disagreeing with that point at all!).
I think the OH&S rules we have plus the ever growing piles or red tape it takes to run a business are not instigated by the party's in power. It's more likely a reaction to protect themselves from the high court.
Look at the current cases such as Australia's response to boat arrivals. Granted the watermelon party ( Greens) are pushing against the Libs but the courts are doing a whole lot to modify the political behaviour.
Labour and the insulation scheme. It still confuses me how a dodgy boss who puts kids lives at risk can fall back on the person who instigated such a good idea! The courts and litigation lawyers did that.

Although the political parties are busy orchestrating our way of life to line their pockets a little thicker, they still have to respond and react to how the courts will view their decisions.

On a side not about politics (I know, it's a dirty word now!) I'm pretty disappointed in all of them now, but mostly the Greens. I thought I was an educated voter when I was 18 and I vocally supported them. I respected their perspective on many things but the more and more I read into their policies, they look like a thin green veil covering communism.

....that and If I ran this country... I would sink it faster than the Lusitania!.

Just incase anyone has not heard of the of the Watermelon Party ( aka the Greens), 'Green on the outside and Red all the way through!'