Thread: Painting machines

Originally Posted by Brobdingnagian

Pete, what detailed work are you referring to when talking about machine tools? For my part the biggest improvement for fine work is not the colour as much as the lighting conditions, as you can do very detailed work on any colour medium. Or are you meaning for a contrast colour, a background, eg splash back? If so then I would think a black background would be superior light grey to for lathe work as most things that would be turned in an industrial shop would be steel/aluminium and when well lit shows more contrast on matte black.

I would think that with todays OH&S workplaces all the machine tools would be high visibility day glow orange, with enough warning stickers over the high vis paint that you would not be able to see its colour anyway.

-Josh

Josh you have to remember that these studies are done by academics, that's the expression I've seen used in papers regarding this type of thing. However to be honest I'm not that interested. I was just curious and as always if "I wonder why ..." I'll try to find out, and that was the reason given in the papers I saw. I know the Germanic countries in particular love this type of thing. Even the absolutely abysmal colours for Aciera's CNC machines has some specific academic logic behind them IIRC but I don't recall what it was. CNC machines in "Plum" is just wrong ... as is Bob's Hercus Like others, I'd prefer to leave everything as (a reputable) manufacturer designed it, and leave my creative juices for what comes off of it. As far a resale value, I have yet to see a colour choice (other than standard) that would add to the value, but I've seen plenty that sure as heck detract from the value!

The other thing to remember is that any colour choice in today's industrial environment is also influenced by the requirement to have other contrasting switches etc in their appropriate colours that cannot be changed. More detail can be found on this in OHS industrial design papers if you Google them. As I said, that may not be a factor in the home shop, but that's what leads industry.

As far as not "seeing" the surrounding colour when working, I couldn't disagree more. I didn't notice as much with the 9" as it didn't have a splash back. I don't notice it at all on the mill, as the column is facing me, but that 260 that green is in my peripheral vision for sure. I've been doing a lot of fine work on that lathe the past week and find I work much closer to the work than I would say on a mill. I've never used one with DRO, but I'm pretty sure that would divorce me even more from it. I'll soon find out I guess

I agree, lighting is hugely important. When I put the lighting in the workshop I ran a program to design the optimum lighting configuration according to this type if work. I can't recall the number of fittings it came up with, but I was shocked. The room where my machines sit is not very big and has light coloured walls with a white ceiling, I finished up with 6 x 3' fittings with task lighting on each machine. I think it's very good, yet technically still is well below industry requirements However it's a far cry from the previous single incandescent that would swing in the breeze until next time I hit it with something to be plunged into darkness ... again

Pete

Originally Posted by Pete F

Josh you have to remember that these studies are done by academics, that's the expression I've seen used in papers regarding this type of thing. However to be honest I'm not that interested. I was just curious and as always if "I wonder why ..." I'll try to find out, and that was the reason given in the papers I saw. I know the Germanic countries in particular love this type of thing. Even the absolutely abysmal colours for Aciera's CNC machines has some specific academic logic behind them IIRC but I don't recall what it was. CNC machines in "Plum" is just wrong ... as is Bob's Hercus Like others, I'd prefer to leave everything as (a reputable) manufacturer designed it, and leave my creative juices for what comes off of it. As far a resale value, I have yet to see a colour choice (other than standard) that would add to the value, but I've seen plenty that sure as heck detract from the value!

I was trying to stay away from questions of taste but there is definitely an good case for non-offending colours from manufactures, broader appeal(or not putting people off by painting it pink, especially in a male dominated industry) = more potential sales. Same goes for resale. There is also something that is deeply pleasing to me when all the machines in a workshop for factory are the same colour. I think it is because gives a hints at an idea well conceived.

Originally Posted by Pete F

The other thing to remember is that any colour choice in today's industrial environment is also influenced by the requirement to have other contrasting switches etc in their appropriate colours that cannot be changed. More detail can be found on this in OHS industrial design papers if you Google them. As I said, that may not be a factor in the home shop, but that's what leads industry.

It was more meant as a joke, but I take you point seriously, as safety is an important aspect in the home workshop and just as important as it is in industry. Having a clear access to a very "visible" safety system is important as you never know when one of your machines is plotting to kill you. It might be because you decided hot pink was a good colour for the table saw, and it decided you really didn't need your fingers any more. On the serious side of things though I have trained myself to have an acute sense of danger when using machine tools and always have in my mind where the E-stop is.

Originally Posted by Pete F

As far as not "seeing" the surrounding colour when working, I couldn't disagree more. I didn't notice as much with the 9" as it didn't have a splash back. I don't notice it at all on the mill, as the column is facing me, but that 260 that green is in my peripheral vision for sure. I've been doing a lot of fine work on that lathe the past week and find I work much closer to the work than I would say on a mill. I've never used one with DRO, but I'm pretty sure that would divorce me even more from it. I'll soon find out I guess

Some people must be more sensitive to colour than others, in the same way as people are tone deaf, how else can you explain what some people wear :P Since I was a kid I have had a private notion as I'm sure most kids do that I see red as you see yellow but we have been taught to call them red. An almost impossible proposition to prove or disprove. Any colour I guess is good as long as it helps you focus on the task at hand, if you constantly thinking you hate this colour you may not be thinking about what you are doing.

Originally Posted by Pete F

I agree, lighting is hugely important. When I put the lighting in the workshop I ran a program to design the optimum lighting configuration according to this type if work. I can't recall the number of fittings it came up with, but I was shocked. The room where my machines sit is not very big and has light coloured walls with a white ceiling, I finished up with 6 x 3' fittings with task lighting on each machine. I think it's very good, yet technically still is well below industry requirements However it's a far cry from the previous single incandescent that would swing in the breeze until next time I hit it with something to be plunged into darkness ... again
Pete

The best lit workshop here is 6x6m sewing workshop and it has 12 twin light fixtures with pale lavender walls and roof. It is excellent for fine needle work, and before you ask yes I sew, I'll man it up a little and say its leather... well mostly.

-Josh

Originally Posted by achjimmy

What was the significance of red in the head stocks and bed webbing on lathes? Iirc it was a"special" paint as well? Even older automotive gearboxes used to be painted red inside.

That may have been "Red Lead" paint. I think that was the natural colour of that oxide. It was supposed to be very good at sealing and corrosion resistance.

Regards Phil.

Originally Posted by Brobdingnagian

(or not putting people off by painting it pink, especially in a male dominated industry)

Pink (not hot pink) is actually a colour I am considering... I do not give a rats what others think, I do not think a particular colour should be denigrated as meaning anything in particular... A colour is a colour...

How many of you associate red with being akin to communism and anyone that uses red is a strident socialist.. It is silly to deal in absolutes like that... Just like pink is a girly colour, even though at the turn of last century baby boys were dressed in pink and baby girls blue... And lets not forget the British SAS landrover colour for desert operations, what colour was it again?

Originally Posted by .RC.

Pink (not hot pink) is actually a colour I am considering... I do not give a rats what others think, I do not think a particular colour should be denigrated as meaning anything in particular... A colour is a colour...

How many of you associate red with being akin to communism and anyone that uses red is a strident socialist.. It is silly to deal in absolutes like that... Just like pink is a girly colour, even though at the turn of last century baby boys were dressed in pink and baby girls blue... And lets not forget the British SAS landrover colour for desert operations, what colour was it again?

Sorry, I was not trying to put down pink that's my own indoctrination of masculinity bias, pink is a fine colour choice, go for it. Although it is hard to deny it has been really ramped up as a feminine colour, personally I blame Barbara Millicent Roberts for that one. Maybe if there were more pink machine tools there would not be such a lack of women in the industry not that is should matter either way. The SAS landrover was painted pink for night camo wasn't it? so it might have some interesting visibility properties.? You could very well be onto a winner there.

-Josh

Nothing wrong with sewing Josh, I have done a bit over the years but are far from an expert. My son was going to be a Auto trimmer as he recovered his car seats and did a few jobs for other people, but he really liked the auto electrics once he tried it and stayed there.

It takes a lot of skill to get things right, which I see reflects in your machining job.

Dave

Go for it .RC.
My Douglas shaper is pink.

Phil

Ha how many memories this forum is bringing back. My dad used to get mum to often paint machines for him and he would use what ever he had (née cheap) they had an old horizontal mill they painted pink! Only just remembered it and it looked horrid sorry no offense meant. It must have been an old girl because he replaced it with a Parkson universal mill with B&S taper and that was quite old.

Lots of engine reconditioning gear used To be painted red and looked great. Also remember a few red Macson lathes at some time.

I take it a caustic bath would also remove casting sand?

Originally Posted by .RC.

Thanks for the pdf Bryan...

Back to painting, can you put high build primer over normal primer?

My plan is to give the bed a bath in a caustic bath that will strip the paint as well as clean, then paint with primer, then send out for regrinding, painting it properly when returning...

Generally yes, if they're compatible. You need to check with the manufacturer to be sure.

What type of primer do you have? If the castings are fairly smooth you could just use a primer surfacer which gives you a bit of filling, or if quite sandy looking you may need spray putty. Spray putty usually needs to go over primer. The undercoats need to be compatible with the top coat e.g enamel undercoats for enamel topcoats, acrylic undercoats for acr top coats. If possible stick to the one brand as well.

The paint shops usually have a solvent fried guy somewhere in there, get hold of him and pick whats left of his brain.

Primer gives very little protection against moisture, oils, greases and the like. It would be better to send it out in the white and paint properly when it gets back or paint it properly now and fix up the damage when you get it back. The advantage of the second option is people will be a lot more careful handling the bed as any rough handling will be apparent.

Did you get paint strainers and tack rags when you were out. Absolutely essential for a good job.

Garry

On a side note I noticed the cylindrical grinder gone off gumtree. I was all set to get this morning too.

I have been using acrylic primer/putty for years. If you thin it down it's primer and mix it thick and it's putty, don't have to buy anything else. When you open the tin it's really thick so it goes a long was as primer.
It's fine for acrylic and enamels to go over the top.

Years ago (around 20-25) I used to use spray putty, but you needed to undercoat first, apply the putty, then apply primer over it after you where finished. This stuff just make the job so much easier.

I use grey but I think it's available in a few other colours like black.

Dave

Edit
You can just spray this out of a standard gun, once it gets really thick it will spray on as a large orange peel, but if you need it thick you want high build and will be sanding anyway. Of course if you buy a gun with different nozzles you can change to a larger one, but I am to lazy most of the time to do that, LOL

Originally Posted by marty989

I take it a caustic bath would also remove casting sand?

It will dissolve paint, grease, oil, brass, copper and pretty much anything organic but not sand.

Originally Posted by Brobdingnagian

It will dissolve paint, grease, oil, brass, copper and pretty much anything organic but not sand.

Thanks for that as I was wondering about other metals. Is it just the stuff from the supermarket, and I may have missed it but what strength do you use?

Dave

Originally Posted by Garry 3

Primer gives very little protection against moisture, oils, greases and the like. It would be better to send it out in the white and paint properly when it gets back or paint it properly now and fix up the damage when you get it back. The advantage of the second option is people will be a lot more careful handling the bed as any rough handling will be apparent.

Just a side note here, some grinding coolants will soften paint.