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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick14 View Post
    In addition to my last there are two versions of the Sieg C8/C10 lathes. Those configured primarily for metric, and those primarily for imperial threading. The difference is to do with the ratios in the gear box. The Imperial version covers most imperial threads with the QCGB, but requires change gears for a workable range of metric threads. The metric version covers most metric threads with the QCGB, but only covers 9 imperial threads, and misses some key ones such as 20 TPI. The imperial version comes with a 30, 35, 50 and 60 T change gear set to access the metric gears. The Metric version comes with only the 30T gear from that set, which limits its flexibility for imperial gears. With the addition of the 60T gear the metric version could also get the 20 TPI thread, and maybe some others. Maybe Sieg will consider this in the future. In the meantime, Ausee has said that he can get ahold of the extra change gears if needed.

    I caveat all of the above with the fact that it is based on my maths. My maths is strong, but I haven't done threading operations on a lathe, so all of the above is theoretical.

    Here you can download a pdf listing all thread pitches the imperial and metric versions of the C8 can cut:
    wdl5.streamhoster.com/hvp/DROPROS/ThreadSizes.pdf

    Here you can download the C8 user manual:
    wdl5.streamhoster.com/hvp/DROPROS/SC8%20Manual.pdf

    Here some images and description of the C8:
    http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Sieg_SC8_Lathe.htm



    A metric lathe has metric leadscrews. An imperial lathe has imperial leadscrews. Well, that would be ideal, but it is NOT always so. Consider this wnen choosing:

    - The metric C8 has 2mm leadscrews for cross slide, compound and tailstock. The "imperial" C8 appers to also have 2mm leadscrews for cross slide, compound and tailstock. Just the graduated collar is imperial - meaning there is a small but recursive error. Whilst this is for many users acceptable for a small low cost minilathe, it may not be what you want on a $2k+ lathe.

    - you may want to find out, if the thread cutting leadscrew is imperial or metric. I could not find this information in short time. If the lathe comes with correct translation gears (I am not sure if it does, you better check, there would have to be something like a lkargish 120/127T gear set) this will not affect accuracy of the threads that you cut. But it affects the way how you do threading. Ideally, a lathe predominantly used to cut metric threads has a metric leadscrew, and vise versa. Think about this before deciding to go for either model, as you will be stuck with your choice for a long time.

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  3. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Oz
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    615

    Default Pita?

    The WM-250G (same as the AL-250G except for imperial thread capability) comes with extra gears, but also misses some important threads, 20 tpi being one of them from memory. For me that is a deal breaker, there are plenty of lathes on the market that will cut all the common imp threads. I can believe the makers of the WM-250G (if the same factory that manufactures the AL-250G) have missed a few thread cutting gears, they certainly missed the quality issue, but Sieg? I think I’d delve into that a bit deeper, perhaps there is an ‘accessory gear’ available.

    I’ve heard a few on this forum say that cutting an imp thread on a met lathe is a PITA, I have a met lathe but I find it no more difficult to cut imp as it is to cut met threads, The only problem I can see is the threading dial, but as I don’t use the threading dial anyway it’s of no concern to me; that aside, what am I missing, can someone please explain why it would be such a PITA.

  4. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    17

    Default

    I am now down to deciding between sieg c10 and hercus ctm. The sieg is the more capable lathe, but the hercus cheaper. It is possible to upgrade the hercus to ATM in the future if the lack of cross feed and qcgb bother me. I also don't burn $200 in freight if I go for the hercus, which would be nice. The hercus will also retain its resale value.

    Based on its manual The metric c10 will definitely do a 20 tpi with an extra change gear. It only comes with a 30 tooth gear, but that gives you a 40tpi thread. So with a 60 tooth gear it will do 20 tpi. The 60 tooth is available through ausee for $10, so no drama. The D1-4 spindle nose, 38mm bore and ready to go auto feeds and clutch are also very tempting. I think the sieg would last me a good while, whilst I may find the limits of the hercus sooner.
    Last edited by Mick14; 13th June 2015 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Typo

  5. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
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    68
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacc51 View Post
    The WM-250G (same as the AL-250G except for imperial thread capability) comes with extra gears, but also misses some important threads, 20 tpi being one of them from memory. For me that is a deal breaker, there are plenty of lathes on the market that will cut all the common imp threads. I can believe the makers of the WM-250G (if the same factory that manufactures the AL-250G) have missed a few thread cutting gears, they certainly missed the quality issue, but Sieg? I think I’d delve into that a bit deeper, perhaps there is an ‘accessory gear’ available.

    I’ve heard a few on this forum say that cutting an imp thread on a met lathe is a PITA, I have a met lathe but I find it no more difficult to cut imp as it is to cut met threads, The only problem I can see is the threading dial, but as I don’t use the threading dial anyway it’s of no concern to me; that aside, what am I missing, can someone please explain why it would be such a PITA.
    Smaller metric lathes with a metric leadscrew do not usually come with a threading dial - they do not really need one either. The rule for such lathe is that the user can open and close the half nuts whenever he likes, provided the pitch being cut is contained as a whole number in the leadscrew pitch.

    Example a leadsrew with 3mm pitch: It can cut the metric threads 3mm (M27), 1.5mm (M10), 1mm (M6 and M7), 0.6mm (M3.5), 0.5mm (M3) and you can open close the half nut anytime without loosing sync. Some other pitches like 2mm will need some care where the half nuts are engaged, but it will be pretty obvious as there are not many wrong engagement points and those that are are completely off.

    Example a leadscrew with 1.5mm pitch: it can cut the metric threads 1.5mm (M10), and 0.75mm (M4.5) and 0.5mm (M3) and you can open close the half nut anytime without loosing sync. Some other pitches like 3mm and 2mm and 1mm will need some care where the half nuts are engaged, but it will be pretty obvious as there are not many wrong engagement points and those that are are completely off.

    All other pitches are done with half nuts closed all the time.


    Lathes with an imperial leadscrew do almost always come with a threading dial. Also, lathes designed to do both metric and imperial threading do most often have an imperial leadscrew. But on these lathes, the use of a threading dial for metric threads is a PITA, because of time it takes to figure out what gears need to be used inside the threading dial for any particular metric pitch, and depending on the thread dial design gears need be changed. Threading dials for imperial leadscrews used to cut imperial threads do not have this problem - that is why it is easier and more popular to use threading dials on imperial lathes. Another factor is, that there simply are more different imperial pitches than there are metric pitches.


    To sum all up:
    - a metric hobbylathe with metric leadscrew predominantly used to cut metric threads does not necessarily need a thread dial. Imperial threads will be approximate pich only, unless a 127T gear set is included.
    - a hobbylathe predominantly used to cut imperial threads should have an imperial leadscrew and a thread dial for imperial threads. Metric pitches and Module pitches will be approximations only, unless fitted with a 127T gear set
    - a hobbylathe used equally to cut metric and imperial threads should preferably have an imperial leadscrew, and a thread dial preferably with internal changegears, and should (almost must) have a 127T transposing gear set for accurate metric and imperial pitches.

  6. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    17

    Default Lathe Bought! Anyone have info on Hafco AL350?

    Hi guys,

    Sorry I have been out of it for a while. I took all of your advice on board, and have been looking around for a decent lathe. I had been on the verge of going for a Sieg C10 from Ausee in Melbourne (great service) or going for a Hercus ATM when a Hafco AL350 came up in Canberra on gumtree (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/downe...the/1082366543). I went and had a look today and have bought it. This was a convenient outcome for me, as I managed to avoid the pain of driving to sydney or dealing with freight.

    The lathe appeared to not have much wear, and was in relatively tidy condition. It was also made in Taiwan, which seems to have a better reputation than China. It was in a blokes shed not getting much use, and had initially been from Uni Newcastle. I is over what I wanted weight wise, but as a few of you mentioned, the difference between 200 and 300kg is not much.

    Does anyone have any experience with this particular model that I should be aware of?

    Thanks again for your advice, it was a massive help.. Once I get sorted I will include some pictures of the set up.

    Cheers,

    Mick.

  7. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Australia east coast
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    I think the main difference between this one and the AL360B is the shorter bed. If it's been well looked after, it should be quite a good lathe for you and will have good resale value when the time comes to trade up, or a good second lathe to a bigger one if you find you need one.

    Congratulations, most likely a very good outcome. Decent machine all round really.

    PDW

  8. #52
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    Jun 2013
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    Canberra
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    Hi PDW,

    Thanks, that is exactly what I wanted to hear.

    That is what I thought, and I went ahead on that basis, but nice to have it confirmed by someone who knows what they are talking about.

    Cheers,

    Mick.
    Last edited by Mick14; 26th June 2015 at 08:08 PM. Reason: left out half of sentence

  9. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
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    Default

    Be very, very careful moving it. The base is flimsy and lathes are very top-heavy. It's far too easy to have it do a face-plant in an instant and if it starts to go, you won't stop it, you'll just get hurt.

    Best is to lift via a soft sling or similar through one of the bed webs or similar, using an engine hoist or the like. Make sure you don't bend any of the shafts too. Try to move the carriage & tail stock to balance the lathe when lifting, then lock things down.

    PDW

  10. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Horsham Victoria
    Posts
    5,713

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Be very, very careful moving it. The base is flimsy and lathes are very top-heavy. It's far too easy to have it do a face-plant in an instant and if it starts to go, you won't stop it, you'll just get hurt.

    Best is to lift via a soft sling or similar through one of the bed webs or similar, using an engine hoist or the like. Make sure you don't bend any of the shafts too. Try to move the carriage & tail stock to balance the lathe when lifting, then lock things down.

    PDW
    Apparently this can be an issue with wood lathes too. 1000mm to a concrete floor is not a good thing even if the fall is broken by other things along the way



    Slings a good idea



    Fortunately this one was fixed



    Had it been a metal lathe I dread to think of all the damage that might have occurred

    Dave TTC
    Turning Wood Into Art

  11. #55
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    17

    Default Success

    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for the words of caution PDW, unfortunately I didn't read them until move was complete. Luckily I spent a bunch of time watching youtube videos/reading threads on how people have moved lathes and we managed to get through it okay.

    I bought one of those rolling dolly's from bunnings and we lifted the lathe onto that, and very carefully wheeled it down the narrow access path at the place I bought it from. Then used an Engine hoist to lift it up and back a ute under it. Then did the reverse when we got it to my house, it is in now, but I need to reconnect the motor wiring and sort out some stable feet for it before I get it up and running.

    Mick.

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