Thread: Request for up to date lathe advice

Originally Posted by PDW

Keep in mind that if the cross slide travels 110mm, it actually covers a diameter of 220mm as you only need enough travel for the radius of the workpiece not the diameter.

PDW

I was tracking this, but now that I see you write it down it seems like missing 30mm of the max possible swing is not a huge deal.

Originally Posted by Mick14

I was tracking this, but now that I see you write it down it seems like missing 30mm of the max possible swing is not a huge deal.

Yes it would be a huge deal. A lathe than cannot face in one go its center height would be looked at as an extremely poor and flawed design - not worth considering. I still believe the 110mm are a typo though. If confirmed to be a typo, you should ask H&F for an extra 10 or 20% discount for telling them. Because they would surely not sell many of these lathes without you pointing out about that typo

That said, the vast majority of your jobs should fit above the cross slide. Else you would be buying a too small lathe and soon get annoyed by it. Keep in mind that the available power and rigidity will only allow for minuscule depths of cut at its maximum swing. Any operation at or close to maximum swing will take an eternity. That is acceptable if you only use it for such large diameters once or twice a year. But if you envisage turning or facing up to 250mm diameter on a monthly basis, you should better buy a lathe two sizes up.

I read somewhere that 90% of your jobs should fit within a diameter about a 1/3 of the swing.
That makes sense to me as you don't want to be regularly turning large items at the edge of your capacity. Did that just the other day and it was horribly slow. Around 220mm swing still gives you a part 70mm in diameter which is quite reasonable really.
We say it to just about everyone who asks the question you have, but "What is it you want to make?". If you can answer that you will certainly be able to better define your requirements.

Michael

Here's a different take on the AL-250G that cuts imperial threads: http://www.engtooling.com/catalogue/...h-100_1029?p=1

I have seen only a few AL-250s and all were poorly made. Many Chinese manufacturers offer what appear to be the same or similar lathes with perhaps only one or two minor differences, perhaps this one is better made than Hafcos.

On threading speeds, my lathes bottom speed is 125rpm, I've probably only cut a couple of dozen threads over the last six months or so but I've honestly never had a problem with threading to a shoulder. I keep the guard up and press the trigger, releasing when the carriage handwheel reaches a predetermined number, switch to reverse then press the trigger again. The only time I've over shot the shoulder is when I forgot switch to reverse.

Have you considered an AL-320, on sale they can be had for around $2100. Optium also offer a slightly larger model with a 280 swing, not sure if it's available in Oz.

Originally Posted by Michael G

I read somewhere that 90% of your jobs should fit within a diameter about a 1/3 of the swing.
That makes sense to me as you don't want to be regularly turning large items at the edge of your capacity.

That's why I have 4 lathes (though 2 are basically the same work envelope). Chipmaster/Emco with 11" swing, Monarch with 18" swing and Smith-Drum with 28" swing. If I need more than that, it's time to use the HBM (when I get it working).

I'll be in Sydney in a week so will take a trip to H&F - it's not all that far from my Sydney house. I'll be interested to see if those lathes have improved in manufacturing quality since last I looked.

PDW

Hi Mick,
I keep an eye on local 2nd hand machines but they are few and far between and when they do come up normally pretty pricey. I would try to get a look at a Hercus but i don't know of anyone with one locally to look at.

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the advice. This afternoon with your advice has been more productive then the last two months or so of research on the net. I may try and get up to sydney on the weekend to have a look at Hare and Forbes and see what is there. I also want say that the help I have received here is head and shoulders above that given on any other forums I have seen. Kudos for the welcoming attitude, particularly for a question that has been asked many times.

Michael - My immediate plans are to support the CNC conversion of my mill (titan tm25v). As part of this I would like to make a fourth axis, and intend to make my own spindle for it. To do this I will first be making a tool post grinder (based on the spindles work shop book). Most of my work will be under 100mm. I would like to go for a 300mm swing, but can't really justify the weight (I think my max weight is already pushing it).

Sacc51 - I have considered the Optimum 280 model. I am pretty sure it is sold in Australia by mcjing tools (https://mcjing.com.au/categorybrowse...categoryid=132, but they haven't had it in stock (or their 250 model) for as long as I have looked at their site. That said, their prices are fairly good. The 250 model also has a 21mm spindle and I don't think it has quick change gears.

PDW - I have been eyeing that Emco on ebay off for a while now. It looks nice.

Ueee - I have been watching also, I think the only reasonable chance is to make the journey to Melbourne or Sydney to pick something up if I go second hand.

CBA - thanks for the education, it really helps me get my head around this stuff. I have considered a hercus 260, and am certainly not opposed to it. I was leaning toward new machines because I don't know everything I should be wary of on old ones. Do you know what a reasonable price for a hercus 260 is?

I really like the look of the Sieg C8, but will have to have a good think about the weight and whether I can deal with it.

Other than that, the ozmestore seems to have the best features. Their appears to be a whole lot of online support for that model which is the same as the grizzly 10x22, so help will be available on yahoo. I am intending to scrape in my mill when I have a chance, and am happy to fettle the lathe as well. The ozmestore lathe may be the way to go.

Mick.

The Paramount Browns lathe and the one from Ozmestore are most likely the same thing. I know for a fact that many of the other machines Paramount sell are the same as the Ozmestore ones. I have been to Paramounts and looked at the items and then bought from Ozmestore and picked up exactly the same item, although now they are branded differently. I wouldn't expect any after sales support from either place beyond initial warranty, so why pay more from Paramounts? Freight from Adelaide is probably expensive also.

I just sold an AL2??? (sorry I can't remember the numbers, but I think it was AL230C?) Lathe because it was just not good to use for me. I have only really used better quality lathes and I bought it thinking that it would be good for small jobs, but the fact is it wasn't. It was awkward to use and noisey, so I used my much larger VDF Boehringer . The AL250G does look better though.

Personally of the lathes you listed I like the look of the Optimum, but would really like to try one and see how it goes. I don't think the 110mm travel of the cross slide would be a problem very often. In my experience I haven't faced a lot of items that large without a hole in the centre or something to break up the facing size.

I would look at used lathes, but that takes time and travelling, so maybe new is the way to go for you. Keep up the research and keep asking for people with real experience on the models you are considering, but don't forget our perspective may be different to yours.

In regards to using a lathe to the edge of its capacity i think would depend on its quality and construction. I have used 100% capacity on some and it felt quite capable and others less capable at considerably less capacity, although the material being turned, tooling and work holding definately have an influence there.

Hi Mick14,

I reckon for a first lathe, you should strongly consider acquiring a Hercus 260 or an older 9"AR.

You should be able to get something nice for less than $2000, maybe a lot less.

Have a chat to Mal (allterrain50), he may be able to steer you in the right direction.

Mal carries a good range of used and re-manufactured Hercus parts including complete machines.

http://www.australianmetalworkinghobbyist.com/store/

Cheers,

Ken

Idle observation.... 110mm cross slide travel plus 70mm compound slide travel gives 180mm travel.

Originally Posted by neksmerj

Hi Mick14,

I reckon for a first lathe, you should strongly consider acquiring a Hercus 260 or an older 9"AR.

You should be able to get something nice for less than $2000, maybe a lot less.

Have a chat to Mal (allterrain50), he may be able to steer you in the right direction.

Mal carries a good range of used and re-manufactured Hercus parts including complete machines.

http://www.australianmetalworkinghobbyist.com/store/

Cheers,

Ken

Thanks Ken,

Just checked the link and found this: http://australianmetalworkinghobbyis...product_id=196

Very interesting. Will make a call in morning. I am googling now to find out further about the lathes capabilities.

EDIT - just finding it is the base model (260 CTM) with limited capability. Not sure about the full limitations and will have a further look, but may not suit my needs.

FWIW - I don't think much of Hercus lathes. The 260 is OK - just - but the earlier ones are basically Australian made copies of the South Bend. The only good thing I have to say about them compared to new Chinese lathes is, they do have back gearing and therefore really nice torque multiplication in slow speeds. They're still lightweight, flexible, screwed spindle nose machines with tiny dials and a lousy 3/4" spindle bore.

I know there are a lot of them out there and people do good work with them, but they still aren't really much of a lathe WRT power & rigidity.

IMO you should get over the 200kg weight limit. It's no harder to move 300kg or 500kg than it is to move 200kg but going up in mass opens up a lot more machinery. Mass equals rigidity, not one for one, but the general relationship holds. My Chipmaster is a lot more rigid than my Maximat 11 yet the Maximat is a lot newer and in perfect order.

At your mass and dollar budget you simply aren't going to get a really good machine so whatever you buy, you'll almost certainly outgrow. With that in mind I'd look at the H&F lathes over Ozmestore. At least with H&F they have some sort of brand recognition and store front presence for warranty etc. There have been a number of tales of woe here concerning eBay sellers of "machine tools".

PDW

Peter has a good point WRT weight. 200kg is still going to require lifting gear if you don't have 3 strong mates. With an engine crane and a trailer 500kg is easily moved.
If you ever need a hand i'm happy to help if i can fit it in.

I would tend to go for whatever Hafco offering fits your requirements. The machines they sell are little different to the others on offer, ie somewhere between woeful and mediocre, but from personal experience they will deliver on service or back up if you need it, they have the company size and organisation to be able to do that.

Consider your first lathe (I'm assuming this is a first lathe) as a learning experience, something to sell to an eager newbie in a year or three and upgrade to something with more capability.

Having said that, if you are considering lathes of the AL250 class, for another $400 or so you can get an AL320 which gives you metric and imperial threads and very importantly (trust me on this) a 38m spindle bore. Its almost twice the lathe for 25% more money.