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21st August 2015, 01:52 PM #1
Stag Jointing paste - What am I doing wrong??
Guys,
This follows on from my previous post about my airline pipe around my garage...
A bit of background...
I already had some suitably sized brass hex bar so have made a few 1/2" BSP - 1/4" BSP reducers and 1/2" BSP - 1/2" BSP Male couplers (all parallel and not tapered threads).
All have been cut with HSS hand taps and a new (Goliath) Carbon Die.
I bored the female threads to the 'drill size' written on the tap and cut nice internal threads. For the male threads I turned the brass down to the appropriate major diameter and cut the thread with the die.
Both parts fit together nicely with minimal play in the joint.
In line with the recommendations received already I bought some Stag jointing paste, coated the thread liberally, put the parts together and left them for 24hrs before applying any air pressure... Blow me the joints leaked
I then pulled them apart, re-cleaned and repeated the procedure again... 36hrs later I still have a leak from the joints.
Previously (when I lived in the UK) I have always used white PTFE tape and cant say Ive ever had a leaky joint. Unfortunately Ive run out of my UK tape so thought Id give the Stag (thick red one) a try...
What am I doing wrong? Any thoughts or suggestions? Try as I may Ive not been able to find any instructions on how to use the stuff (other than whats written on the tube).
Thanks
J
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21st August 2015, 02:24 PM #2SENIOR MEMBER
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If it was me, I'd be cleaning it off and then using some teflon tape. Can get good quality from any plumbing supply place.
or get some of this.
http://www.loctite.com.au/thread-sealing-4048.htm
I've had the "pleasure" of trying to clean a few flanged steam joints that had had stag applied and then been in service for years. Its hard to remove once ithas been cooked.
bollie7
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21st August 2015, 02:43 PM #3Pink 10EE owner
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The male threads should be tapered.. That is what makes the seal...
I have never had much luck with that stag stuff...Light red, the colour of choice for the discerning man.
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21st August 2015, 04:05 PM #4Senior Member
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Clean both threads thoroughly with metho and let them dry before applying the Stag compound.
Tapered threads work better but the Stag compound should seal fine with straight threads.
Cheers,
Greg.
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21st August 2015, 06:39 PM #5GOLD MEMBER
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You do realize we do have thread tape in the colonies.
Are you tapping and threading correctly?
Did you thread and die parts in the UK.
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21st August 2015, 07:02 PM #6Cba
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My experience on tapered threads:
- I apply teflon tape, then smear a light coat of Stag paste over the teflon tape just before putting together (Stag paste dries very fast. If you allow it to dry before putting together it will not aid sealing)
- If the Stag paste is too thick, use Alcohol (Methanol or ISO-Propanol or Ethanol will work fine) as thinner
- Use Alcohol to clean Stag paste from fingers
- To reuse fittings after undoing, you need to remove the dried Stag paste and the teflon tape. A file brush works best. Then clean with Alcohol.
- Stag paste dries hard. And it dries fast. If the joint needs adjustment after the paste has dried, it may leak. Better use Teflon paste for joins that need adjustment, most Teflon paste will normally not dry out or only after years (unless its an aneoribic curing Teflon paste like Swak).
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21st August 2015, 08:10 PM #7
I haven't used Stag in years and didn't know it was still around because I haven't looked for it.
However my father used to use it regularly, and always used it with hemp fibre as a filler. I cannot remember a leaky joint from any of the thousand or so that I witnessed. From memory, the old school plumbers also worked the same way. General technique was to clean the threads if needed, (freshly cut and oily) peel a few threads of hemp of the hank and wrap around the male thread to about half fill the thread form, put a smear of Stag paste over the thread and hemp, then fasten to the female half of the joint. This method used the hemp to fill any major gap between the threads and pushed a small amount of Stag onto the face of the female threaded body. Don't know if you can buy plumbers hemp any more, as I haven't looked for it either.I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.
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21st August 2015, 08:39 PM #8
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21st August 2015, 08:44 PM #9
Thanks all. I can see one thing I haven't done when using the Stag and that is de-grease the fittings before sealing.
I did use WD40 to aid cutting the threads, after blowing them clean with the airline I smeared in Stag and put together - maybe thats my problem.
As far as using hemp is concerned, I reckon the threads are probably already a close enough fit and Im not sure how I could get it in the joint.
I'll try cleaning off with brake cleaner (cos thats what Ive got on the shelf) tomorrow and try again... Then, if that doesn't work I may be off to Reece or Blackwoods for some decent thread tape!
Thx
J
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24th August 2015, 03:24 PM #10GOLD MEMBER
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I hate fridgies who use Leak Lock...a refrigeration/airconditioning thread sealing goo....it must work as I have never seen a leaking threaded joint although I cant say the same for when they use it on flares ...bloody mongrels
I prefer to use thicker teflon tape myself.
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24th August 2015, 07:48 PM #11
As Usee says you should be using tapered threads. Parallel threads on pipe system components rely on a separate face type seal such as a washer, the threads are there to hold it all together tightly but don't have any part in actually sealing anything.
However, if that's all you've got then you'll just have to cowboy the seals. Try GAS PTFE tape; it's yellow and much much thicker. The equivalent Loctite product is 567 which is a thick white non-setting compound but you would want your threads to be pretty close to work. Or Loctite 577, this is a setting compound that cures almost immediately in tapered threads but because yours are parallel you won't get the anaerobic conditions required to trigger the cure so you'll probably need to squirt some activator on the joints. The good thing about either of these Loctite's is that the seal is immediate, no waiting for it to cure.
Stag is a fantastic gasket sealant but really no good for what you are trying to do here.
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24th August 2015, 09:42 PM #12SENIOR MEMBER
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Hi J
I did a couple of airline threads over the weekend and used this stuff. http://www.henkel.com.au/3320_AUE_HT...=8802639020033
Everytime I use it I don't get any leaks, probably more to do with luck than anything else
Not trying to influence you in anyway but tapered threads are borderline being 'a must use' type of thing and there is no power on earth that will make me use stag. Mainly because I am normally the one that has to undo the fitting in the future and clean it off before using teflon tape (or cord) like I should have used in the first place.
Phil
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24th August 2015, 11:03 PM #13Member
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Earlier this year we had gas put on in an investment property we were renovating, I did all of the labouring/trench digging and installed the copper pipe, a plumber I know checked the pipework and plumbed up the appliances, I have used Loctite 55 same as Steamwhisperer for some years now but plumber said if you are using non tapered brass fittings the thread should be scraped with a file five or 6 times around the fitting (across the thread in the same direction as the gas flow) then use ordinary teflon thread tape (gas or water type as required) the joint will not leak, he did this to all of the gas joints. I haven't tried it my self as I have plenty of the Loctite 55 on hand but he swears by it
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25th August 2015, 08:24 PM #14
Update...
Because 2 of the particular joints that kept leaking were a PITA to get to I went down to Reece's and bought a couple of 1/2" BSPT - 1/2" BSPT brass fittings and some thread tape! They didn't have any yellow but did have pink. Came home, did my thing and all sorted, no leaks.
I also used the same pink tape on 2 of my home made parallel 1/2" BSP fittings that connected to a home made 1/2 BSP female fitting and everything sealed up nicely too - mind you, I did have to use a little more tape than I thought I maybe should do.
So, all up I have no leaks!
One thing I did notice though, even after 5 days of the Stag being installed with no air pressure in the pipe, when I disassembled the fittings the jointing paste was nowhere near hard / set. I will not be using Stag again!
Thanks for the assistance and pointers.
J
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25th August 2015, 09:58 PM #15
Good to see you have solved your issues. As already stated tapered threads are the go.Stag-- if its anything like the stuff I have used, it needs heat to do its thing. As in for engine cooling systems.My go to when PTFE tape isnt working is to add a little La-co T-O-T to it. My local plumbing joints know it simply as TOT. Keeps well, even once opened.
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