Thread: Vertical slides

Hi Bob.

I've got one of the Hercus vertical slides and the rotary indexer also.

In lack of a mill, I've used the milling attachment for a bunch of stuff and while small and restricted I've done quite a bit with it.

What I haven't used yet is the rotary indexer as I dont have anything to really hold any workpieces. I have an ER32 collet chuck on a MT3 arbor that would fit and work in a pinch but figured this would leave the work hanging way out in space from the rotary indexer and it wouldn't be real rigid, but to be honest I haven't tried.

What are you using in yours? MT3 collets? I'd kind of like to get a chuck on it which could probably be achieved with a MT3 ->1 1/2"x8

I only have the 24 division plate as well but apparently at one stage Hercus would make whatever you wanted.

If you dont have a mill the vertical slides, while a compromise, are certainly handy if your job works with it.

Originally Posted by Hornetb

Hi Bob........What are you using in yours? MT3 collets? I'd kind of like to get a chuck on it which could probably be achieved with a MT3 ->1 1/2"x8

I only have the 24 division plate as well but apparently at one stage Hercus would make whatever you wanted.

If you dont have a mill the vertical slides, while a compromise, are certainly handy if your job works with it.

HB,

In the photo I'm using a 3C collet. I've always thought it weird that Hercus didn't supply the indexing head spindle with a threaded nose. To mount a chuck, a threaded Morse arbor is required allowing the holding of short workpieces only. 3Cs will accommodate long workpieces but only up to 1/2" in diameter.

Hercus would machine indexing plates to a customer's requirements in the olden days. Those days were over when I bought mine. I cut the divisions. They should be numbered. I've been lazy.

BT

Originally Posted by cba_melbourne

Despite this, dedicated and talented people have turned out the most incredible projects with only a lathe and vertical slide. Chris

The Pathan tribesmen on the NW Pakistan frontier make superb replicas of Enfield rifles et al (including AK47's but they're hardly a challenge). They do this with incredibly primitive tools.

Your point is.... ?

I stand by my opinion - vertical milling slides are crap. Do not waste your money on one, save up for a real mill. Even the smallest Sieg type is going to be better.

PDW

Originally Posted by steamingbill

Hey Bob,

Does the purchase of the mill mean that you might consider selling one or both of those vertical slides ?

Bill

I've got an incomplete one somewhere that I'd sell you. Assuming I can find it. I'm driving from Melbourne to Raymond Island at the end of this week (15th onwards). PM me if interested.

PDW

Whilst i have never used a vertical slide on a lathe, and hence cannot comment of there use, i don't see why, if you really wanted to go down the path of milling on the lathe, you couldn't make one.
Get some CI, and use an angle plate on your cross slide. It will be painful with no Y axis, but i'm sure with some patience and a dial gauge you could get the dovetails parallel and fitting nicely. Make it as solid an heavy as you can...mass=good.

FWIW i will be making a slide for the Rivett lathe....but only so a can machine matchbox sized stuff with tiny endmills.

Ew

Originally Posted by PDW

I stand by my opinion - vertical milling slides are crap. Do not waste your money on one, save up for a real mill. Even the smallest Sieg type is going to be better.

PDW

I fully agree. My lathe came with the item, otherwise I wouldn't have specifically sought one out. For what the slides cost and what they are capable of, you would be better off spending a little more and getting one of the small Siegs over a vertical slide.

Think I'm beginning to understand both sides of discussion re milling on lathe vs buying a milling machine.

Mr Hercus is quoted as writing that back in 1954 it took 10 weeks "average" wages to buy a Hercus 9" - (quoted from this site Page Title)

I think 10 weeks average wages today would get a great lathe and a great milling machine - both brand new - approx $15,000 ?
(see this web site 6302.0 - Average Weekly Earnings, Australia, May 2013)

It seems to me that the price and availability of mills to folk in their back sheds has improved enormously in the last 60 years.

Yes people have done and can still do excellent work on a lathe using a vertical slide, but they would have probably found it easier to have both machines, but until relatively recently, milling machines for the personal toolshed were probably difficult to find and quite expensive ?

How many weeks wages did a small milling machine cost back in 1954 ? Were small milling machines available to ordinary folk in 1954 ? So did they end up improvising ?

For me, I saw the X2 at H&F a few days ago and thought it was a bit small and flimsy, saw the X3 thought it looked okay but would cost $2,000+ ( 1-2 weeks pay) with tools and therefore am interested in other options.

Well that was all a bit of a ramble.

Bill

Originally Posted by steamingbill

For me, I saw the X2 at H&F a few days ago and thought it was a bit small and flimsy, saw the X3 thought it looked okay but would cost $2,000+ ( 1-2 weeks pay) with tools and therefore am interested in other options.
Bill

Bill, I have the Sieg X3, and I have a vertical slide. You cannot compare an X3 to a vertical slide, it is a much more capable machine. Consider that the X3 is quite a bit heavier than the average 9" hobbylathe.

If you need a comparison, then you may better compare a Sieg X1 micromill to a vertical slide. The lathe with vertical slide can probably remove 2 times more material in a given time, but the X1 is quite a bit more versatile than a vertical slide. Chris

My lathe came with a vertical slide (the H&F cheapie) and while I agree it is not very good and a pain to set up and use, I have even amazed myself with some of the things I have been able to do with it.
A mill would be the go but the minister of finance is somewhat unwilling to release the funds.

I got the vertical mill with the Myford when I bought it I have used it twice in the 9 months I have had it. Over the years I have read and seen many long term users articles on use of it and have seen for small milling jobs its ideal. Even more so if you only do small milling tasks and not that often. Its a versatile addition as its NOT just a vertical mill if you have the swivel angle to horizontal also. I am an novice yet I have seen many a pro use these in the years in workshops and at their homes. Two pro's who know I have it have said "best thing to have as an attachment".

Now if I had the room and cash then a stand alone mill would be on the agenda.

Lets see Harold Hall has and uses one. Tubal Cain also both the original and the US fellow and many others so they can't be all bad.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

If you had to use a vertical slide, a slide that mounts on your compound is more versatile IMO than one that mounts directly to the cross slide. The first photo below shows a cross slide mounted Hercus slide, the other, an old 90 dollar Myford slide on the compound. Compound mounting provides more readily accurate infeed and angular infeed. To control the infeed using the Hercus slide I used the micrometer saddle stop.

Attachment 292664 Attachment 292665

I probably used the Hercus slide 4 times and the Myford once. Then I bought a mill.

Bob.

Bob thanks for posting the photo of the Myford one in particular a top idea might have o see what I need to do to do a similar fit to the ML7.

Mill or slide, I think you have to look at it logically: Buying a dedicated mill and all the associated tooling just to cut the occasional keyway or the occasional slit is way over the top to my way of thinking, the money would be better spent on a good belt sander or something else that would be used regularly. I had a mill six or seven years ago: a 2" vice for a vertical slide, a couple of keyways and a few other bits and pieces I did just to learn how to use it were the sum total of it's use over the seven or eight years I had it. The rest of the time it just sat in the corner quietly rusting so I sold it, along with the vice and the rotary table you can see on the shelf in the foreground. The mill was three phase but I replaced the motor with a single phase and made up new bracket and a few other bits and pieces. Searched through my photos and found this picture - Cheng Shen rings a bell. I had to remove the top guard also, had I known you could run three phase on single phase at the time I wouldn’t have gone to all that trouble.

Whether to buy a mill or not? It really depends on your interests. Before I bought my mill I had no real idea what I wanted to make with it, I just knew I wanted to have the capacity of a basic mill. Now that I have one, so many projects have presented themselves to me that I could never have predicted such. With each new machine tool acquired, your capabilities and potential projects list increases dramatically and so does your imagination in order to accommodate your new capabilities.

Why get I mill? I say why not!

Simon

Hi I have a machine slide that appears to come from a very old piece of machinery it may have even been a lathe. I was going to try to make up a vertical slide myself but have now been given permission to buy a small mill so dont need it any more.

I live in the Barossa so getting it to you shouldnt be a problem.

The photos may help