Thread: Interesting welding dilemma

Hi Rob,

I'm sorry but I can't answer your question. I will be pretty sturdy though. I guess one way to tell would be to lift the lathe on, bolt it down/level it and then see if you get much movement on the bubble over a couple of days to use as a guide to whether the steel is sagging? It does not look like a massive lathe so It's probably overkill. I love overkill! I like your design and your videos!

One day I may steal that design and make a new lathe bench too. Can never have enough draw space.

Cheers,

Simon

Originally Posted by simonl

Hi Rob,

I'm sorry but I can't answer your question. I will be pretty sturdy though.
Cheers,

Simon

Yes, the RHS is damn heavy and not likely to move much

That's why I made this one with a detachable spine, as the first one I did isn't, and it's damn heavy to move when completed. I used heavy angle iron for the legs etc. on the first one, but channel is quite OK in 3 mm thickness (it's actually racking steel).

If I get rained in I may do the verticals but I think it's unwarranted.

Glad you enjoyed the video. YouTube is a big deal these days - plenty of activity and interesting ideas on it.

I particularly like this one.

Prepper Tip- Bending copper tubing with ICE! - YouTube

Cheers

Rob

Nice frame Rob.

Only reason I would weld the vertical is if there is going to be side ways stress on the frame as this would weaken and tear the weld.

Ray

I think it would give it additional strength... not that I think it needs it in this situation.

Personally I would weld it up because my approch is always to weld the crap out of everything. But in this case it also looks like it would seal the ends of the horizontal beams which look to be RHS.

Rob are the cross members to be weight bearing? If so I believe it's not generally considered good engineering practice to have the weld in tension as one half of the joint currently is. Personally I always weld right the way around the joint. If you weld vertically they will be in shear and significantly stronger.

Even if not weight bearing, the vertical welds would significantly increase the strength in racking. Whether or not it's required in practice is another thing, but for the sake of a rod or two I wouldn't even question it.

Pete

Originally Posted by Pete F

Rob are the cross members to be weight bearing?

Pete

Hi Pete,

No, the cross members aren't really load bearing as such.

You're all probably right re welding the verticals. Just a few more rods, and it looks like I'm gunna get rained in for a few days so may as well do it.

If you're wondering why the spine is offset from centre, it's to allow space for the belt drive system to sit behind the lathe.

I made this stand deeper than the first one for the above requirement, and also to utilize the shed space and give me plenty of storage under it.

When things get tight on storage space - go vertical

It's interesting when you build stuff like this, just how far all that steel you bought doesn't go. No wonder it finishes up weighing a ton.

Cheers

Rob

As an aside Rob, it's quite surprising how much a stand will flex with changes in weight distribution. Access to a precision level can be a real eye opener and open a pandora's box to just how much metal moves. A couple of months ago I commissioned my 260 and it was quite remarkable how much the bed itself flexed with just the movement of the saddle.

Pete

Originally Posted by Pete F

As an aside Rob, it's quite surprising how much a stand will flex with changes in weight distribution. Access to a precision level can be a real eye opener and open a pandora's box to just how much metal moves. A couple of months ago I commissioned my 260 and it was quite remarkable how much the bed itself flexed with just the movement of the saddle.

Pete

What sort of lathe stand do you have it on Pete ?

The beauty of the centre spine design is that the RHS remains rigid regardless of what's happening with the rest of the stand ie. the legs could be spindly and flex, but the RHS wont.

So the lathe bed stays aligned in all situations.

Rob

Originally Posted by nearnexus

What sort of lathe stand do you have it on Pete ?

Rob

It's the factory stand, but it's not the stand so much that I'm measuring, rather the way the bed will dip down in the centre as the saddle gets to the middle of the bed and then tilts up at each end. We're not talking 45 degree angles here mind, but enough that it can clearly be seen on the level.

The first surface plate stand I needed to significantly stiffen up from when I first welded it up, and also re think the load paths. I think Bruce should be happy with it now, but initially it was my first big lesson in just how much metal moves.

Yes I've often looked at the bed support of some lathes and thought that surely supporting a beam at the very ends is not the most rigid way to support it, but what would I know.

Pete

Originally Posted by Pete F

Yes I've often looked at the bed support of some lathes and thought that surely supporting a beam at the very ends is not the most rigid way to support it, but what would I know.

Pete

Funny you should say that.

I was recently looking at an early English lathe on LathesUK (the name escapes me) that had three base mounting points - which is unusual.

According to the write up this caused more problems than it solved, as getting it level was apparently an absolute nightmare.

So maybe simple is best.

Cheers

Rob

Originally Posted by nearnexus

Funny you should say that.

I was recently looking at an early English lathe on LathesUK (the name escapes me) that had three base mounting points - which is unusual.

According to the write up this caused more problems than it solved, as getting it level was apparently an absolute nightmare.

So maybe simple is best.

Cheers

Rob

My Chipmaster has 3 mounting points, as does a Monarch 10EE IIRC.

You don't *need* to screw about to get the machine level as it makes absolutely no difference. The only reason to level a 3 point bearing base lathe in is so you can then use a precision level when setting up a job - something I've never even considered doing in a lathe. A mill, sure, but not a lathe.

People level in lathes because it's a crutch for flexible beds. At least if the bed is level in 2 planes it'll probably cut accurately. There really isn't any other reason to bother.

PDW

Originally Posted by PDW

My Chipmaster has 3 mounting points, as does a Monarch 10EE IIRC.

You don't *need* to screw about to get the machine level as it makes absolutely no difference. The only reason to level a 3 point bearing base lathe in is so you can then use a precision level when setting up a job - something I've never even considered doing in a lathe.
PDW

Actually Peter, there is another reason to level a lathe with a 3 point base. I did mine because I didn't want to push the tailstock up hill. Other than that, no, there is no necessity

Michael

I find the responses regarding level interesting as it tends to be a concern even in wood lathe circles.

Originally Posted by PDW

People level in lathes because it's a crutch for flexible beds. At least if the bed is level in 2 planes it'll probably cut accurately. There really isn't any other reason to bother.

PDW

Yep, spot on, but it's got nothing to do with being level as such, it's more about removing twist from the bed. Not something a 10ee needs to worry about.

Regards
Ray

PS As to the original question regarding the lathe stand, make it as heavy and rigid as you can, a few extra welds won't hurt.