Thread: has OH&S gone overboard

There was a quote which was originally directed towards Americans, however I see no reason it cannot be more broadly applied...

"lets take the warning labels off everything and let the problem sort itself out"

OH&S did once have an important role, but now a lot of OH&S is to mitigate the employers responsibility rather than make the workplace safer. At work, if I log a job on a defect to get it fixed I may have the problem rectified in a month. If I can justify the same defect as an OH&S hazard then it will get fixed a couple of days after I log it. Every defect I log has an OH&S implication now.

Corbs

Originally Posted by silentC

Been nice knowing you, Stirlo....

mate, freakish things like you quoted are bound to happen...its a very small chance and its not going to stop me from getting in the way of a ball. plus i should have good enough reflexes to get a stick in the way first, assuming it happens again

Originally Posted by AlexS

Stirlo, re the mouthguard. I know that off the shelf mouthguards are uncomfortable, but try getting one made by a dentist or dental tech. Much more comfortable and you can speak while wearing them - at least loud enough for the ref to hear you, unfortunately (DAMHIK). They're not cheap, but a lot cheaper and more convenient than false teeth or a crown.

i'll trust you on that one ATM, its not really worth me buying a dentist moulded one because my mouth is still growing and it would need to be replaced like every couple of months ( at least thats what i've been told ). lol, i get less cards with my mouthgaurd in because i cant tell the ref where to go lol

LOL - good thread!

does OHS have its place - of course it does, has it gone too far - of course it has.

case in point - just starting a new job, there is one day in the induction for OHS - one full day! - BTW its an office job........................... pen stabbings perhaps? dropped tissue boxes, spilt coffee? ;D

2 words

nanny state

OH&S at my work is a full week induction and thats just the site one, then you get assigned to a plant and do another... plant OH&S induction... then every job no matter how small it is has a JSP(job safety procedure)which is controlled by... OH&S!

For some people, retrospective abortion laws should have been introduced (especially OH&S pencil pushers).

Just read that and laughed.

Problem was I had a mouthful of beer... beer, work desk covered in my crud, work laptop, beer spray... should be a OH&S rule about that!

Originally Posted by BobL

Go back and look at what I wrote in my post.
"In 1993 the wearing of high visibility clothing was brought in for forestry workers the number and % of accidents involving unseen workers dropped dramatically to virtually nil.."

Do you want to an attempt at answering this one Carl?
"I assume you at least wear thongs when using a chain saw?"

[EDIT] just found a picture of carl in another thread wearing boots or joggers and ear-muffs.

Go Carl!

No but i was and would have happily had a go. I believe at 52 my ability with a chainsaw is of a standard that i would be safe for a short "trial" if i didnt have boots with me. If i plan to use a chainsaw i wear long pants & boots but for a short "go' thongs wouldnt stop me. I would be more worried about stepping on something sharp than the chainsaw. I think a lot of people over estimate the danger of a chainsaw in capable hands.


I agree with Carl OH&S is definitely necasary but it has gone overboard.
The trouble with the fire brigade, not for profit organisations etc is people with no "country" type experience move into an area and want to do the community thing and join/help but have no idea of what is dangerous and whats not. Somehow we need a system that can identify these people and train them without wasting the time of Carl and other experienced like people. Too many people are waiting to "sue" and get rich at the expence of someone else.

At home it is your decision what you do.

But at work we dont want someone putting our life at risk by giving us the option of "do that or no job" attitude. Ron Barrasi is right (Victoian advert) Worksafe sponsors football because we want all workers to come home safe to play footy and for their families to know they will come home.

Someone needs to get rid of the Lawyers and work out the c**p from what is needed.

What we have at the moment is sending small businesses broke and wasting so much time it is a joke.

David gets off soapbox

If that wont get someone going nothing will

A danger with the myriad OH&S material forced down people's throats is that all OH&S issues might be judged by the ridiculous OH&S material and all safety advice become ignored.

Some of it is great advice and reduces accidents. Many of us think we know which way is up however there is always something new and valuable to be learnt about safety. Don't bog me down with cr@p though.

I worked for Lysaght and at the time was owned by BHP Steel. Long before all this government control came into place they used to be self insured in that they didn't pay money out to an insurance company and they carried their workers compensation.

They ran a pretty tight ship and were very conscious of OHS and every site had its own OHS committees made up of employees from the various departments on the site. They had a safety officer nominated from the committee and they were responsible each day to do a brief inspection to look for any unsafe practices or any hazards that may have developed. They ran their own training and all employees had to participate. They certainly weren't over the top like some of the rules the pen pushers have put into place but on the whole each site was responsible for the OHS.

Every twelve months every site would be audited by a safety officer from BHP head office.

Now with all this in place years ago BHP still experienced some horrendous accidents.

OHS is in place to protect fools a lot of the time.

I had an incident when I was managing the branch in Tamworth when I had two men operating an 8 metre sheet metal folder which had two foot controls to operate the clamp bar which unless both foot controls where pressed together the clamp bar wouldn't come down.

Because one operator was lazy he had jammed a block of wood in his control and he would just tell the other operator when he had his end of the metal set and the other operator would position his end of the metal and then press his control. The problem was as the operator pressing the the foot control pulled his metal into place and pressed the foot control because the metal being folded was long and heavy the metal pivoted in the middle and the other operators hand was pulled under the clamp bar and ended up with his fingers crushed.

Originally Posted by Barry_White

OHS is in place to protect fools a lot of the time.

Very true however some thought should be put into not treating everyone like a fools.

Nobody likes being treated like a fool and quite often OH&S is presented assuming everyone is a fool. Even fools don't like being treated like morons. It gets many people offside thus negating it's very important aim.

I think some OH&S trainers are extremely poor choices and their appointments should be seriously questioned. OH&S training should be cherished by staff not a "here we go again" reaction.

Originally Posted by Wood Borer

Very true however some thought should be put into not treating everyone like a fools.

Nobody likes being treated like a fool and quite often OH&S is presented assuming everyone is a fool. Even fools don't like being treated like morons. It gets many people offside thus negating it's very important aim.

I think some OH&S trainers are extremely poor choices and their appointments should be seriously questioned. OH&S training should be cherished by staff not a "here we go again" reaction.

Wood Borer

What you say is true and that is why I think the BHP model was so good because it involved all the staff to put it into place with help from experienced OHS people not the way they do it today.

Originally Posted by Calm

Someone needs to get rid of the Lawyers and work out the c**p from what is needed.

What we have at the moment is sending small businesses broke and wasting so much time it is a joke.

Thats the reason why China is so efficient, because they have minimal OH&S

If you want companies to be more safe you have to give them an incentive to be safe. Give them tax breaks, offer free safety training etc. If you want the economy to go forward, its all about providing incentives.

The problem with monetry incentives not to have or not to report accidents is that serious incidents are hidden which is certainly not the goal.

A mate worked on the rigs in Bass Strait quite some time ago. The overseas company who owned the rig had "fly home bonuses" and "fly around the world on us" incentives plus cash rewards for the entire shift if there were no lost time accidents.

Serious accidents happened and the injured were pushed out of sight until the end of the shift. Workers bribed medical staff not to "officially" treat the injured. Others worked under the names of the injured doing 36 hour shifts.

Not a very nice scenario brought on by sheer greed and selfishness.

Perhaps these issues could be addressed, if not, don't tempt the greedy.

We are overly regulated in the workplace IMO
but there are some drongos out there who need to be protected from themselves. Consequently OH&S works on the lowest common denominator. Its gone so far as to limit not only productivity, but also creativity. So many artforms have potential for harm, it'll result in everything but pencil drawing being banned at uni!

Originally Posted by Wood Borer

The problem with monetry incentives not to have or not to report accidents is that serious incidents are hidden which is certainly not the goal.

A mate worked on the rigs in Bass Strait quite some time ago. The overseas company who owned the rig had "fly home bonuses" and "fly around the world on us" incentives plus cash rewards for the entire shift if there were no lost time accidents.

Serious accidents happened and the injured were pushed out of sight until the end of the shift. Workers bribed medical staff not to "officially" treat the injured. Others worked under the names of the injured doing 36 hour shifts.

Not a very nice scenario brought on by sheer greed and selfishness.

Perhaps these issues could be addressed, if not, don't tempt the greedy.

I know that happens, on a smaller scale at least, in the mines at Kalgoorlie when I worked there. Vouchers for local shops when a certain number of shifts reached without a reported accident. Rising scale of $$, then it started from scratch again after an accident.

Cheers,

Thats the reason why China is so efficient, because they have minimal OH&S

Yeah they have a record of something like 100000 fingers lost in one province alone per year

I do believe to some extent the cotton wool policy has an opposite effect on safety. If a scaffold has a safety tag I can't fall off etc etc.

I recently had to put up a 200mm high scaffold. Its a potential broken ankle if you stand on a hop. The issue was is 2 blokes tripped on it because you dont think consciously that you are stepping onto a box.

People think so much better about safety when they're scared.

Then theres the biological pest sprayer who rocks up to spray next door. Hes says it will be fine but continues to put his mask and gloves on.
He starts spraying and 8 plasterers run from the house next door dry reaching. Everyone in near vicinity ends up with a migraine.

There is some massive holes in safety.

In saying this the basic safety card is so disgustingly under written its a joke. Its a mind numbing piece of dribble and an appalling waste of money.
I think that its written to prevent a failure rate but if you don't pass you shouldn't be on a work site.

After all your stupidity might kill me. A lot of the time it is someone else who causes you injury.

Someone really has to write some decent curriculum for the course.

So do I write a Job Safety assessment to go the toilet?

If you ask a trainer that they wont answer it. Because as usual the law has to be tested.

Gee its good to work in an office again. Not a care in the world. Beers at lunch, no worries bout being litigated.

Someone has to bring some common sense into safety as it will eventually run this countries economy into the ground putting many people out of work.

With all the chant from employers, government, economists about how Australian workers have to compete with the rest of the world, demands of higher productivity theres an ever increasing number of people who have never done your job in detail ready to destroy productivity in a minefield of litigation and paperwork.

The Chinese must be rolling on the floor laughing at the Australian government and all the LEGO people walking around creating themselves work.

No wonder inflation is skyrocketing. It's not the cost of workers. Its the cost to do business.