Thread: Alternative accelerator for CA

WWunderba!!

Thanks for posting David - I was wondering why you were out of stock of Mitre Fix!
Much appreciated!
Justin

Excellent discovery David. Should be able to do the coating without a dust extractor to take away those breathtaking fumes now I assume.
Thanks for providing that info for us all.

Well done David, i am not a fan of the CA finish, but thanks for sharing with the team that do

hey david
im guessing that you will still have to mitrefix for sale
and also for those in the know glen 20
keep us informed of any other product you can find as well

Thanks for the info David. It's a heck of a lot easier to run down the shop and get some Glen 20 then wait for a deliver when you run out (as I currently have and always seem to do at the worst time).

Looking at the chemistry the Mitre Fix accelerator is an aromatic amine, most likely something like dimethylaniline or dimethyltoluidene which act to increase the free radical generation and thus increase the rate of polymerisation. Other things also promote this free radical generation such as hydroxyl ions (from caustic soda or even water which is why getting moisture in your CA will make it go off) or other alkali sources such as carbonate ions, which is why Issatree's saturated baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) works.

Glen 20 is predominatly propellant and ethanol, with perhaps a bit of quaternery ammonium (disinfectant) thrown in for a good measure. Not sure if its the same for CA but quats will actually inhibit the polymerisation of polyester resins so at a guess I would say that the ethanol is most likely to be acting as the promoter, but thats only a guess. David have you tried just straight metho?

cheers
WH

Originally Posted by wood hacker

Looking at the chemistry the Mitre Fix accelerator is an aromatic amine, most likely something like dimethylaniline or dimethyltoluidene which act to increase the free radical generation and thus increase the rate of polymerisation. Other things also promote this free radical generation such as hydroxyl ions (from caustic soda or even water which is why getting moisture in your CA will make it go off) or other alkali sources such as carbonate ions, which is why Issatree's saturated baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) works.

Glen 20 is predominatly propellant and ethanol, with perhaps a bit of quaternery ammonium (disinfectant) thrown in for a good measure. Not sure if its the same for CA but quats will actually inhibit the polymerisation of polyester resins so at a guess I would say that the ethanol is most likely to be acting as the promoter, but thats only a guess. David have you tried just straight metho?

cheers
WH

Hi Wood Hacker.

You lost me after "Looking at the chemistry the.... " Chemistry was not my strongest subject. I think ethanol (alcohol) is the thing that kills all the germs. The disinfectant sanitizer gels that are all the rage at the moment is ethanol (alcohol) based.

Straight metho? anyone know if you can get straight metho in a can?

Also, can anyone explain me how you can make a steel can, fill it up with hydrocarbons, ethanol and perfume, paint the can, ship it in a box to a warehouse then onto a retail outlet, put it on a shelf and sell it for $3.80. In that process, the factory makes money, the cardboard box manufacturers makes money, the trucking company makes money and the retailer makes money. We live a pretty fantastic society to be able the make this equation work. It is just amazing.

Timberbits.

Originally Posted by wood hacker

Thanks for the info David. It's a heck of a lot easier to run down the shop and get some Glen 20 then wait for a deliver when you run out (as I currently have and always seem to do at the worst time).

Looking at the chemistry the Mitre Fix accelerator is an aromatic amine, most likely something like dimethylaniline or dimethyltoluidene which act to increase the free radical generation and thus increase the rate of polymerisation. Other things also promote this free radical generation such as hydroxyl ions (from caustic soda or even water which is why getting moisture in your CA will make it go off) or other alkali sources such as carbonate ions, which is why Issatree's saturated baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) works.

Glen 20 is predominatly propellant and ethanol, with perhaps a bit of quaternery ammonium (disinfectant) thrown in for a good measure. Not sure if its the same for CA but quats will actually inhibit the polymerisation of polyester resins so at a guess I would say that the ethanol is most likely to be acting as the promoter, but thats only a guess. David have you tried just straight metho?

cheers
WH

thanks wood hacker,
i was wondering what it was in the glen 20 that set the c.a off, whether it was just the propellant or an ingrediant they both shared?

Here is one person who doesn't seem to be a fan

Glen 20 Part Deux « Stu's Shed

I haven't tried it yet so can't comment one way or the other.

Originally Posted by cookie48

David.
Thanks for that, but sorry you just done yourself out of a sale. Was about to order another can from you. Sorry
Honestly great video and nice pen.

Maybe he can become a glen 20 agent?

Originally Posted by timberbits

Hi Wood Hacker.

You lost me after "Looking at the chemistry the.... "
Timberbits.

I thought it was water that sets off CA? I've been "huffing" on mine. Not sure if it does anything. Maybe not enough water vapour in my breath.

David thanks for sharing

NEWS--despite the current trend of falling share prices--the Glen 20 shares have had a mysterious rise in value-analysts- are not sure what to make of it-of course it WOOD have adverse repercussions on the stock market. Amos

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Here is one person who doesn't seem to be a fan

Glen 20 Part Deux « Stu's Shed

I haven't tried it yet so can't comment one way or the other.

Hi y'all, just to be clear, I wasn't implying that Timberbits isn't getting the results, but that, as in my previous post

Pen finishing on a shoe-string

the chemistry doesn't support any benefit to Glen 20 over aerosolised water. As Tea Lady put - it is moisture that sets the CA off (or more specifically the hydroxide ion in water), and from a bit of playing last night I got the same result, in the same time from water, vodka and Glen 20 (in 3 separate tests, not altogether!) (Glen 20 has quite a bit of water content)

Commercial CA accelerator does have a catalytic effect.

And finally, baking soda also speeds up the process, but not from a chemical reaction. It provides additional nucleation sites for the reaction to commence from, but in doing so is trapped in the result so cannot be called a catalyst. Baking soda is certainly used as a filler with CA, but again, any fine powder should achieve a similar result. (I wouldn't use talcum though - too soft. Tripoli might be a better alternative choice for a test, but baking soda will be cheaper).

Originally Posted by Stuart

Hi y'all, just to be clear, I wasn't implying that Timberbits isn't getting the results, but that, as in my previous post

Pen finishing on a shoe-string

the chemistry doesn't support any benefit to Glen 20 over aerosolised water. As Tea Lady put - it is moisture that sets the CA off (or more specifically the hydroxide ion in water), and from a bit of playing last night I got the same result, in the same time from water, vodka and Glen 20 (in 3 separate tests, not altogether!) (Glen 20 has quite a bit of water content)

Commercial CA accelerator does have a catalytic effect.

And finally, baking soda also speeds up the process, but not from a chemical reaction. It provides additional nucleation sites for the reaction to commence from, but in doing so is trapped in the result so cannot be called a catalyst. Baking soda is certainly used as a filler with CA, but again, any fine powder should achieve a similar result. (I wouldn't use talcum though - too soft. Tripoli might be a better alternative choice for a test, but baking soda will be cheaper).

Hi Stu

Thanks for the information. Like I said Chemistry was not my strongest subject.

Is there a cheaper aerosol on the market place which has a high concentration of water without the perfume? Water from the tap is the cheapest method but I can't get a fine enough mist to stop big chunks of white crystallization on the surface.

You can purchase pump accelerators but again we need a very fine mist otherwise we get the white crystallization on the surface.

Thanks for sharing

Timberbits