Thread: Inquiry about CA

I don't have a lot of experience using CA on pens. I've tried it and had bad results. I know it works, but I just haven't quite gotten it down yet.

Nonetheless, when I was a kid I built a lot of models out of plastic, pewter, and resin. At the time, it was fine. They stayed together, etc. A few years down the track, however, they did reach a point where they would occasionally have parts fall off in storage or have joints which were extremely brittle. I would attribute this to the breakdown of the CA glue.

I suppose CA is a volatile compound. It dries and sets quickly, and it probably doesn't have a lot of time to really become something with a lot of longevity. I'm a geologist, and the first thing that comes to mind is granite vs solidified lava. Both can be made of the exact same stuff, but because granite cools drastically slower underground, it has time to crystallize and really set (like epoxy) and it lasts billions of years, whereas CA glue is that extrusive lava that cools at atmospheric temperature and just turns to brittle, useless, rocks.

Bottom Line: I've seen it break down first hand, but not on pens. And I definitely think that leaving it in a hot/cold car could cause that to happen more quickly.

Hope that helps. Sorry for the weird analogy (which may or may not be in any way accurate...).

Cheers,
Luke

Hmm CA can have issues if:

• Finished pens are exposed to extreme temperatures (heat causing expansion, cold causing shrinkage) causing the brittle CA to pop off/delaminate or crack. I keep my finished pens in padded leather books within Aldi cooler bags.
• Timbers not completely seasoned before finishing, thus shrinking causing delamination
• Sanding blanks too much before applying CA ( ie not enough bond). I sand to 600 max these days due to that.
• Oily timbers not wiped down with thinners before applying CA causing delamination
• Contaminated surface (oil, grease etc) on surface before applying CA causing delamination.
• Not sealing blank ends and moisture gets in

Hope this helps

Hi

I've had a bit of de lamination experience. While not proven 100% these are my guesses.

1) oily timber - teak and red cedar - delamination after a few months .. I use Ubeaut or friction wax
2) timber not dry properly - delamination after a few weeks
3) timbers which suffer from expansions or checking - hairy oak, ebony, especially in humid places eg Qld .. They expand and contract putting stress on layers of CA
4) re finishing or fixing after defects or poor finish - I use wet and dry so maybe moisture gets trapped in earlier stages
5) not cleaning properly before applying CA
6) applying too thick coats .. Eg I sometimes don't let the CA warm up enough after storing in the fridge ..
7) Dirty oily rages between applications
8) not sanding after 3-4 coats
9) leaving in the sun and getting to hot
10) CA going off
11) being too vigorous with accelerator to dry - heats and smokes ... I think affects other layers - I don't use accelerator to dry any more .. . I let it dry on it's own ..
12) sanding through CA layer when polishing ... Since I mostly use we and dry I'm thinking water gets into the timbe once I sand throu..
13) when pressing kit together barrel gets skewed .. Twisting barrel and expanding flexing tube puts stress on the barrel and coating...

I was told that accelerator is also a good cleaner .... Clean dust and residues off before applying CA

My thoughts ...

Randal

That's one of the reasons I don't use the velvet rolling sleeves to store ans/or ship CA finished pens in.
CA finished pen blanks do not like to be sealed up especially in a very hot environment.

Les

Hi All,
To my way of thinking, a lot of Woodies use to me that inferior CA that comes in a 6 pack for $2.
It most definitely breaks down.
My Lady has one, & all the small pieces can be felt.

I only use LOCTITE 401. Wood not use anything else.
Have tried a few others, but they either dry up or become thickish & doesn't want to leave the bottle.

As stated awhile back, my 401 sits in a small wooden bowl at about 45Deg. with no cap on, never ever dries up, stays there S W A & S, until the bottle is finished.
Mine lasts a fair while now as I don't do quite as much work.
Justmy2senceworth.

Does not seem to be any problems this side of the world i also belong to a Penturning forum here in the UK and nobody seems to have the problem so it also may be down to the climate as well.

Originally Posted by issatree

Hi All,
To my way of thinking, a lot of Woodies use to me that inferior CA that comes in a 6 pack for $2.
It most definitely breaks down.
My Lady has one, & all the small pieces can be felt.

I only use LOCTITE 401. Wood not use anything else.
Have tried a few others, but they either dry up or become thickish & doesn't want to leave the bottle.

As stated awhile back, my 401 sits in a small wooden bowl at about 45Deg. with no cap on, never ever dries up, stays there S W A & S, until the bottle is finished.
Mine lasts a fair while now as I don't do quite as much work.
Justmy2senceworth.

You are right, the brand does make a difference, those $2 bottles are "CA Wash" (ie the after making CA the wash out the bottom of the tank) and because of the thinner like product dries up quickly. In Qld, my experience was that 401 does go off far slower than other half decent brands, but does still go off due to humidity. I use E-Z directly from manufacturers in US that is similar to 401 in life. I buy in 16oz bottles that works out at least 1/2 price (it used to be less but A$ is now crap and postage has gone up) of the cheapest local Ausi suppliers and 1/4 price of 401.

After reading a discussion on the IAP on CA glues, I have been using Bob Smith Industries Super Gold thin CA. I think this stuff really is the gold standard in CA's.

It is odourless ( no horrible fumes to breath in )
It is flexible ( compared to other CA's ) . Think about it, conventional CA developes problems when the timber expands and contracts with temp changes, also when pressing in tight fittings.

Only downside for me, is no one stocks it in my area, and its expensive. But its worth it to me.

I have tried CA with poor results. Have opted for easier finishes, eg. Minwax ( as suggested by Les) or gloss Kunos oil. Both easy to use and for me, foolproof.

Gary Pye sells Thin and gap filling medium ca in 8 oz containers. Both these give good results on pens but lately I use the medium thickness more often. Be patient and allow each application to dry completely.
Bruce

Going through all my stuff the other day I noticed that all my blanks that had CA finish that were stored in the shed had cracked and were rubbish but the pens stored in my house that were made in the same method are a good as when they came of the lathe.
My guess is the high temp and high humidity in my shed has had a devastating effect.
I use to always start with thins CA to soak into the blank as much as possible thus giving a good bond to the blank. Obvious now this is not fool proof and care must be taken in storage.

Many of the above comments are not painting a very rosy picture for a CA glue finish. I won't use CA glue myself as I don't like the fumes or the hassle of using CA glue.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Many of the above comments are not painting a very rosy picture for a CA glue finish. I won't use CA glue myself as I don't like the fumes or the hassle of using CA glue.

As I said the pens I use every day and have store properly they are as good as the day I made them.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Many of the above comments are not painting a very rosy picture for a CA glue finish. I won't use CA glue myself as I don't like the fumes or the hassle of using CA glue.

Unless you are into wax finished, that come off pretty quickly, any good hard finish will have the same impact of heat/cold. I've been doing it for many years and made 000's of pens without any issues, nor have any of my clients, and mine are guaranteed for life. The only one's I have had come back or had problems were kit issues, user problems, and the finish of my nail polish pens.

Now that's a pen you can't even get relatively hot, the ones made from many layers of nail polish built up over time to get size right, I found the dam things melted. Put them down on a table in the sun and you get flats, stand them up and it flows toward the base . Needless to say I stopped making these.