Thread: Are Pen Turners Copy Cats?

Try being in business, it goes on all the time.

i get ideas from other people yes, i also adjust those ideas to me in a lot of ways

i also post pickies of my pens so that everyone else can see what i have achieved, if anyone likes what i have done then they are welcome to copy or adjust what i have done to suit them

the big question is though how many times can the wheel be reinvented

Are carpenters Copycats?

Are potters copycats?

Is WW a copycat/

I think not!!!!!!

Hey Les,

I think that we are all copy cats to a certain extent, I see something different and think to myself, I could do that , or I would like to try that, take Celtic knots for an example (everyone has had a go at those.)
I read with interest a post on the IAP site, regarding one bloke that took out a copyright on an Idea, (won't go into detail, could open up a bag of worms) and is threatening to sue people for copying HIS idea, lets hope that no body in China sees it or there will be milloions of people to sue.


Hazza B

Originally Posted by HazzaB

Hey Les,

I think that we are all copy cats to a certain extent, I see something different and think to myself, I could do that , or I would like to try that, take Celtic knots for an example (everyone has had a go at those.)
I read with interest a post on the IAP site, regarding one bloke that took out a copyright on an Idea, (won't go into detail, could open up a bag of worms) and is threatening to sue people for copying HIS idea, lets hope that no body in China sees it or there will be milloions of people to sue.


Hazza B

Does anyone have the time????

Can of worms maybe a worm farm

Les just my thoughts we are told asked to produce, reproduce look a likes chisel, file, tool handles, furniture etc.

Now look at commercial jigs where everyone uses and makes he same joints Beals pen OT machine (how he got a patent for that ).

Les, my own belief is that we may use the same basic ideas, then produce our own pens in slightly different formats. The idea of casting out own blanks-it is the principle of casting that is being used- and- you can cast almost anything!? but just because you are the first to cast bottle caps, or swordfish or anything that may be a first, doesn't mean that we can possess that idea,-or there would be a complete annihilation of further initiative. Ususally we take on a great idea and try and improve it, Example is worthless wood, so many beautiful variations. Sometimes others also have the idea but haven't had the time to put into practise.
Here are some ideas I have had but have not the time at the moment-\
a. get the parts out of radios and turn them.
b. get various bits of jewellrery
c. get actual gold or sliver!!!
etc etc, I think that someone actually used watch parts etc, but the amount of things that can be done is amazing.
d. what about the laser side of it, I have so many ideas on that, and now have seen the ideas already being used-they had the same idea.
Now, it might be true that someone is the first one to actually use the idea, usually in this case of casting, someone initially thought of casting, but as to what is actually cast-well- so many things.
The impressionist artists used a certain technique to paint-but that technique was there for others to use and we have a great variety of painting.
Possibly, as with art, if we are to copy someone's pen EXACTLY, and then brag that it is our own, there are serious doubts as to the intentions of the person doing that.
My idea for pine cone pens came only when I saw a beautiful pen made by OLD DOG on this forum, that was two or more years ago, I never fully followed up, but nowadays quite a few are casting pine cones.
By the way, Old Dog, was not secretive, when I asked for more info, he did a great work in progress and posted it on the forum.
There was another great pen I saw some 2 or so years ago, someone crushed beautiful shells and made a pen, absolutely beautiful, he posted on this forum. That idea is seen in crushed Abalone shell, crushed Mother of Pearl.
If we start becoming so greedy that we try "bottling" every little thing, the art of pen making will not advance, it would become "dog eat dog" which would be a great pity.
Be generous, allow artist expression and advancement of ideas.
Be honest, acknowledge where your idea came from. Amos

My dearly beloved set the bar standard against copy cats in two arenas one Quilting and two her cloth dolls staying way out front with innovating design and imagination each year she used to clean up at the annual exhibition sales table by

1. Not being greedy having realistic prices on her work.

2. Presentation, simply shown prices clearly marked, variations within.

3. Each year keeping her ideas to herself politely in a friendly manner.

4. The succeeding years using a whole new crop of designs and patterns.

She averaged after her Organisations 10 or 15% some 1500 dollars to put back into her hobby from table sale in three days.

One year one of her quilts was published world wide and she received requests from all over for the pattern (sound familiar to you?) The requests came in excess of 100,s ,
she answered each one sending by Air Mail predominately to the United States.She met and answered every request.

All of these (except for one request was accompanied by a 5c USA Stamp for return Mail )was blatantly seeking to copycat one of her originals some coming back for more for friends.

Now I asked her how do you feel with all the copy cats about, her reply was let them keep up best way they can, no malice with a wry smile and a chuckle.

Recently I have been impressed on the f___ace of it by Watch parts and being very aware of the infighting on an overseas site when I complete my Steampunk pens will have no problem with others designs or ideas of who came first the Chicken or the Egg. As a
Photographer of Fifty years imagine my feelings when as the copyright owner by law of pics taken mags and folks took them to be copied to avoid paying for reprints the way people do now with scanners etc, calls for a whole new approach to a dieing industry and need to stay in front.

Now penmaking for me in retirement is very much a non profit hobby that I have devoted much money, time and effort to promote. You will completely understand my correspondence to you for my desire never to compromise or undermine any of your inspirations and pioneering pens as I regard you as a supreme maker of clean forever designs and pens to be valued. I respect your help given to so many but know in your heart you must smile as you go forward with your next design firsts.

I have nor forgotten in the USA when you obtained some timber in quantity the rediculous animosty when you sought to share some of this with people in the Americas etc at a nominal to me cost with remarks such as he got it for nothing how dreadful seeking return for some of it etc. Honesty in discussion is reviled and used by so many.

On the other hand I for one salute you for your forebearance and understanding and for this reason I have replied to indicate yes copycats abound, sharing is still alive and well when done properly, acknowledement when using prepared products ie Laser Cut or plastic formed blanks, shared efforts indicate another level of acceptance to be applauded.

Kind regards Peter.

Thanks all for you comments.

I told him I have no problems with some one copying or using any of my ideas. If I didn't want something to be copied then I don't post it for all to see.

We all copy each others work in one way or another, be it a variation in design or process.

The only problem I have is people who want to know how someone did something without even taking any initiative to try it on their own.

In the past I have done up many tutorials on my variations of process and design for all to share.

Les

Les, in the general spirit of the majority of turners, there is a good "share and share alike" attitude, however there are predators out there also, they NEVER contribute, and only ask to GET something so they can use it for their own gains; they are sharks waiting to devour innocent and genuine turners; As for yourself, from the very posts you put out and your many contributions and varied ideas and tutorials, we all know you are a genuine turner with a great attitude--now get out there and post a few more pens so I can copy them!!!!! Amos

Yes, I am a copy cat and most others are to.
If a person does not like that situtation, then do not post your work, and we will not see it.

Terry

I spent a good deal of time reading the posts on IAP about the watch part pens, and to say the least I was astounded. Everyone hears of the atmosphere on that side of the pond when it comes to litigation etc, but to read about it like that was a real eye opener. I just couldn't stop shaking my head as I read.

But I digress, I think we are copy cats to a large extent, but....where do you draw the line?

I have only discovered this turning lark this year. I really enjoy making things on the lathe and the more I do, the better the things turn out (pun intended) the more I enjoy it.

Due to a set of circumstances that I had no control over, I have had to find alternative ways to produce income to support my family, and turning is going to be one of those things. I plan to have my first table at a convention (I have attended for years as a member) early next year.

After I read the BS about the watch de-barcle, I really had reservations about the whole thing, but as someone has already said, if I came up with an idea that no one else had done yet (highly unlikely) if I wanted to keep it to myself (highly unlikely) I wouldn't post any pictures or make any comments about it.

This forum has been such a help to me, anything I do, I cannot wait to post and show all the folks that have offered advice and tips, that their efforts have not been in vain. I hope that I can return the favour to a new turner some time in the future.

I've got a list of things a mile long in my head that I want to try and cast, some of the ideas have come from this and other forums, some have managed to find their way out of my grey matter, and if they work, I will be standing on the hill shouting about it. (probably to discover that someone has already been there done that)

Sorry, got carried away. If I were to buy a completed pen from anyone, and then turn around and sell it as my own work, I should be hung, drawn and quartered. If I buy a pen kit, cast and/or turn something to complete the pen and then sell it or give it as a gift, I don't have a problem with that. I even considered adding signage to my table giving credit to the WWF for the inspiration and knowledge passed on.

oz

Les you have nothing at all to worry about There is no way in the world that I am clever enough to do the sorts of stuff I have seen you do lately
But never the less if by any chance I did manage to emulate any of you pens the I woul;d be more than happy to call myself a copy cat LOL

Keep up the good work we need somebody to copy I mean set a standard for us mere mortals to aspire.


Cheers Ian

If someone copied one of my ideas or designs I would feel pretty honoured, not that its likely to happen. but I guess we all get our ideas from somewhere or something we have seen and adapt the design to suit ourselves.

One of the great things about this forum is the sharing among forumites of their ideas and designs and willingness to pass information on to others and I think that's what its all about, sharing our ideas and our thoughts with one another and learning from each other.

There are lots of people out there who want to keep all the little tricks of the trade to themselves and wouldn't tell you how to do anything. I have found forumites to be just the opposite and more than willing to share and teach and pass on knowledge to others and I guess in doing that we, as the students do copy the things we have been shown or at least get inspired to try and do something like it ourselves.

I am forever grateful to the guys/gals on here who have posted pics and shared their knowledge with us, I have learned a heap from those posts and pics and have copied many ideas that have been put up for us to see.

Keep up the good work and keep those ideas and pics rolling in.