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  1. #1
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    Default Smooth finish with CA

    After an absence from pen turning I have returned and am comparing the pens that I made before to the ones I'm making now. I'm currently turning Redgum with some Fiddleback and some Jarrah. I'm finding that I don't get the same level of smoothness these days that I use to get on the final finish. I use to turn Olive wood a bit and find that those pens are silky smooth even to this day. The Redgum feels smooth on the lathe but after finishing with CA and Swirl Remover I can feel some micro-ripples, can actually see them if I hold the pen up to the light. Now when I turn the blank on the lathe and sand it, it is perfectly smooth as far as I can see. After applying the CA and I only use the Thin type I micro-mesh starting and spending a fair bit of time with the 400 grit equivalent, it all feels fairly smooth and then I progress through the other grits. I may be being pedantic but I'd like these pens to be as smooth feeling as the others I have done previously. Should I expect that these timbers give me the same amount of smoothness? Should they be sealed first, they don't look to be particularly open-grained? I apply b/w 15 and 20 coats of thin CA, sometimes I use accelerator depending on outside weather.

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  3. #2
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    Jan 2013
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    Default

    I'm still new to pen turning, particularly CA finishes, so take this with a grain of salt. Not all CA's are created equally, not all thins are as thin as each other. I was using thin CA, but have switched to a 'thicker-but-some-places-still-call-it-thin' CA and are now getting better, smoother results.

    The thin CA I was using was the Hot Stuff 3mPa/s which ran out like water, while the SolidSolutions CA is 100mPa/s. Hot Stuff Medium is 200-300mPa/s, which is considerably thicker than the SolidSolutions "thin". Again, I'm preferring this setup as its filling in the ripples/unevenness in just 2-3 coats.

  4. #3
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    Timbers continue to move over time and can effect the CA finish. Stabilising the blanks help but most people don't bother with solid timber blanks. I have found (dam I have to finish that video) by coating with the first 5 layers of CA (2 thin and 3 thick or med for me) and then leaving it for a few weeks before sanding back and finishing the layers (of thick for me) and the final finish gives the best results. IMHO this is essential for mixed medium blanks like WW etc and you want to make high end pens. I talk about this at my demos as the best approach, but then finish the pen's finish straight away . No-one from the demos see the pens months after they are finished anyway, and with el cheapo pens most pen makers are making, not worth the extra effort . Another reason to use wax type finishes on the cheaper pens as it moves with the timber (for as long as it lasts, which is often not long anyway).
    Neil
    ____________________________________________
    Every day presents an opportunity to learn something new

  5. #4
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    Tiger

    Fiddleback can be a bit grainy and need a far bit of CA to smooth them out. I use 50cps CA and will soon use 5cps CA as these were the bottles I bought recently from the USA. CA varies in quality as does every product.

    I would suggest you sand to 600grit on the lathe. Then run 0000 steel wool over the blank with the lathe running. Then run the lathe and soak the blank in metho. THEN find yourself an Aldi store and buy Samson kitchen paper. It really is the best. Coat the blanks with thin CA using the Samson paper but use more than 4 or 5 drops of CA. Be liberal with the CA. The Samson will soak up the excess and after the first 4 coats you will have a smooth finish. The remaining coats are build up only and give more visual depth. When you use MM don't rub the blank hard or you will cut through the CA and be back to square one.
    The Pen is mightier than the Sword

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  6. #5
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    Default

    Thanks guys for the responses so far, Neil you might be onto something there with the movement in the timber however this Redgum is very dry, if movement is occurring then it's very subtle but still there can't be any other explanation for it. Plant, will pick up some of the Aldi product next time I'm there, you are correct the Fiddleback just loves to absorb CA, I just wish it would absorb it evenly rather than the ridge formation I get .

  7. #6
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    Default

    Sounds like you apply your CA the same as I do. I don't use any special towel to apply it, but I just stay away from the real al-cheapo no name brands, as they tend to be a bit hard.
    I always MM my blanks as soon as they have hardened. I normally spray some accellerator on after the last coat just to make sure it cures quickly. The only blanks I tend to leave to settle for a bit are burls. I normally rough turn them near to size and then finish turning and coat them the following day or later. After coating I leave them until the next day again before MM'ing as there seems to be a few stresses in burls.
    After the first couple of coats, I don't believe the CA gets absorbed into any soft parts of the wood as it seals up pretty quickly.
    Don't over sand the CA. Try to keep the surface fairly smooth as you apply and that will reduce the need to sand heavily. I give a light sand with the coarse MM pad (wet) and then dry the blank. Once dry, it is easy to see if any more sanding is required. With the lathe stopped, you shouldn't see any shiny spots, it should be all a matt finish. If any shiny spots remain, then a bit more light sanding and you should be right to start on the finer grits.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treecycle View Post
    Sounds like you apply your CA the same as I do. I don't use any special towel to apply it, but I just stay away from the real al-cheapo no name brands, as they tend to be a bit hard.
    I always MM my blanks as soon as they have hardened. I normally spray some accellerator on after the last coat just to make sure it cures quickly. The only blanks I tend to leave to settle for a bit are burls. I normally rough turn them near to size and then finish turning and coat them the following day or later. After coating I leave them until the next day again before MM'ing as there seems to be a few stresses in burls.
    After the first couple of coats, I don't believe the CA gets absorbed into any soft parts of the wood as it seals up pretty quickly.
    Don't over sand the CA. Try to keep the surface fairly smooth as you apply and that will reduce the need to sand heavily. I give a light sand with the coarse MM pad (wet) and then dry the blank. Once dry, it is easy to see if any more sanding is required. With the lathe stopped, you shouldn't see any shiny spots, it should be all a matt finish. If any shiny spots remain, then a bit more light sanding and you should be right to start on the finer grits.
    Thanks for sharing that Treecycle, some good info there. I generally don't inspect the blanks once I start with the MM. A couple of times I've been caught out and discovered that I have over-sanded a spot and I need to come back and re-apply the CA , but this hasn't happened often and if I go with 15 to 20 coats even though thin, I should be ok. I've also found that the brown MM (1500) tends to lose its abrasiveness with me while the other MM pads are as good as new, obviously I'm spending too much time/effort on that grit. You mention to keep the surface smooth as you apply and that reduces the need to sand heavily, I think that some timbers are easier to apply CA to than others, I've read on some forums that some pen turners can apply the CA so smoothly that they hardly need to sand at all, I'm not one of those.

  9. #8
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    Tiger, I have learnt that if I apply the CA, then leave it at least 24 hrs, then sand/micromesh/finish, I will have less chance of ripple effect. By the way, the hardest wood I find to finish with CA is Red Gum and Mallee Burl!!!!???? I find that the CA tends to "lift" very easily on those timbers, Amos
    Good, better, best, never let it rest;
    Til your good is better, and your
    better, best.

  10. #9
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    Thanks Amos, so it isn't just me! Will leave the finish on for a little longer and see what happens. The CA lifting is interesting, I've never had timber so consistently failing to bond. Note to self - avoid Redgum.

  11. #10
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    No one seems to have mentioned lathe speed in this thread. Apologies to anyone if I skimmed over the posts too quickly and missed it.

    I certainly get ripples/ridges in my CA finishes if my lathe speed is too fast. Once they start, unless sanded down between coats, the ridges just get bigger and bigger with successive coats. Most of the time it all starts with my impatience. I either stop, take a mental breather and slow down and sometimes I put it down and start another.

  12. #11
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    Have tried with speeds ranging from 500 rpm to 1000 rpm, doesn't make a significant difference, am now thinking that with fiddleback it may need a couple of thicker coats with medium CA to get an even coat, I'll try that too.

  13. #12
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    Default

    Speeds of 500-1000 seem to be about normal, by all means do your sanding between coats etc, as if you were going to finish it off, BUT, then wait 24 hrs, and see if it may need another coat or two of thin CA and light micromesh and polish. Amos
    PS there is a video in the Library by DJ, it was of great help to me, I don't follow it exactly , but it gave me the basis to a good finish with CA.
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f207/djs-ca-pen-finish-tutorial-71268
    Follow the link. Amos
    Good, better, best, never let it rest;
    Til your good is better, and your
    better, best.

  14. #13
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    Default

    I sand blanks to maximum of 400 grit.
    I never use accelerator.
    I apply with the lathe running @ 600 RPM
    I never sand between coats of Med CA.
    I use extra fine steel wool only between coats.
    I never use Micro Mesh.
    I polish with Huts Ultra Gloss.
    Works great for me.

    If you are seeing ripples in the CA finish you are either applying it too thick
    or your CA is getting old and is too thick to flow evenly.

    Les

  15. #14
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    Thanks Les, will keep that in mind for next time. Amos
    Good, better, best, never let it rest;
    Til your good is better, and your
    better, best.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Les in Red Deer View Post
    I sand blanks to maximum of 400 grit.
    I never use accelerator.
    I apply with the lathe running @ 600 RPM
    I never sand between coats of Med CA.
    I use extra fine steel wool only between coats.
    I never use Micro Mesh.
    I polish with Huts Ultra Gloss.
    Works great for me.

    If you are seeing ripples in the CA finish you are either applying it too thick
    or you CA is getting old and is too thick to flow evenly.

    Les
    Pretty impressive, Les, I'm not quite in your league yet.

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