Thread: The Bitter Pill

I'll tell you something weird here right... but not weird when you stop and think about it, just typical human behaviour really.

If I've got visitors/customers/whoever and I need to turn the 2 bench on to resaw something who do you think are the most dangerous assistants?

Cabinetmakers and woodworkers, thats who.

And the why is both scary and obvious... it looks like a big table saw, so we know what we're doing/ not doing to be safe around this thing. So unlike people who are clueless we stand closer or jump on the back side and tail out to help, because we know what we're doing because its just like our tablesaw that we use every day, but bigger.

And it is, sorta. But sort of not too, and while its not hard to make the jump to working safely around one because they have the basics behind them, that immediate "its safe to do this/stand here/ walk there" reflex is hard to overcome.

People who've always worn chaps stand behind chainsaws when crosscutting, people who grew up without them stand beside them. Ever noticed that - same thing.

Originally Posted by John.G

Then factor in Fred Woodworker whos fitted with a pacemaker... is an electrically charged blade more or less risk to him?

I fit that bill however I have the added hazard that my device is also a defibrillator – and it kicks – like a draft horse on steroids! I have had an “inappropriate activation” in a controlled environment and under medical supervision – the cardiac rehab exercise gym. It hurts and it is very disorientating when it occurs.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

My number one concern with any safety device is it introduces complacency and an expectation of complete safety.

Mobyturns' post is from a dude who (I think) makes safety a prime consideration (as per his catch line). It shows even a contentious user can be caught afoul.

Contentious user ?? not me - conscencious user perhaps.

I fully understand the hazards and associated risks of continuing my hobby with my medical condition and have managed it very well for almost ten years.

My family and my GP support my decision to continue to enjoy life. I still drive, rode a motorcycle (untill recently), mountain bike etc all risks that are managed and I comply with “Jets Law.” 'Jet's Law' and your requirement to report medical conditions - Far North I see my annual drivers medical assessment also as my ticket to operate wood working machinery.

I put in place control measures that limit risk – but like all things in life we never quite know when we will encounter an unplanned event! My family & GP all realize that a residual risk due to my medical condition remains no matter how dilligent I am.

Yes I have compliant machinery, in good working order, I observe the recommended operating proceedures however my medical condition created the initial hazard. The machinery guard operated as it is intended to – but I’m not supposed to fall forward into the “pork chop” style guard.

Its been a timely let off, a very firm reminder that I have to be very conscencious in apraising my physical / medical condition when opperating machinery.

Originally Posted by John.G

If I've got visitors/customers/whoever and I need to turn the 2 bench on to resaw something who do you think are the most dangerous assistants?

Cabinetmakers and woodworkers, thats who.

And it is, sorta. But sort of not too, and while its not hard to make the jump to working safely around one because they have the basics behind them, that immediate "its safe to do this/stand here/ walk there" reflex is hard to overcome.

Complacency and familiarity are hazards that we also must manage. The fall into the “subjective hazard” category – our ability to perceive that what we are doing is a hazard or our ability to perceive the actual risk associated with what we are doing.

Table saws injure far more wood workers than any wood worker would acknowledge.

Yes I have strong views on safety, guarding of machinery etc, and about wood workers / turners understanding the hazards they face and the associated risk.

In my event a good understanding of the above limited the damage. I know I could have totally prevented the event by not operating machinery or persueing my hobby BUT I’m not quite ready for tartan slippers and a shawl over my knees just yet.

Firstly I need to apologise for not responding sooner to these earlier posts ...

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

One thing I want to make very clear I was not actually performing a task on the jointer / surface planer when this occurred, I have over balanced and placed my hand into harms way. Yes I was performing a series of jointing operations but not actually passing a work piece over the cutter head or even had a work piece on the machine at the time.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

I was not actually performing a task on the jointer / surface planer when this occurred. My fingers were not on the side of a work piece.

I was rotating my body back to the infeed side to pick up the next item and the push stick, when I lost my balance. Because I had restacked the items on the outfeed side I did not have anything in either hand. I'm pretty confident that my variety of disposable push sticks are suitable for the tasks and I'm not in the habit of passing my fingers over the cutter head. Your suggestions & input are greatly appreciated though.

however I feel obligated to "correct" you ...
regardless of where a piece of wood may or may not have been in relation to the cutter head, the cutter head of your machine was in motion and you were standing close enough to touch the machine. It follows that you were using the jointer when the incident occurred.

Now I'm not suggesting that you should have turned the machine off while you stacked the piece you had just milled on the outfeed table, more that in terms of critically examining what went wrong as a path to understanding how to prevent a reoccurrence, to say "I was not actually performing a task on the jointer" is to deny a key causative factor associated with your injury -- the cutter head was in motion when your fingers came into contact with it.

Whilst a "normal" Euro style guard would be adjusted so as to leave a gap between the guard and the fence when edge jointing, the fence could also be moved sideways to have that gap closer or further from the front of the machine so that in the event of a "dizzy spell" your balancing hand would land well in front of or well behind the fence and hence clear of the cutter head. (I hope that description is sufficiently illustrative.)

The reason I linked to the Martin T54 jointer was not to suggest that you should buy such a machine but to give an example of how a spring loaded Euro style guard covers the entire cutter head except when a piece is being moved over the cutter in a controlled manner. Whilst hindsight is always 20/20, if your machine was fitted with a guard similar to that on the Martin your fingers would have most likely landed on the guard pushing it down onto the table without exposing the cutter head. If you look again at how the Martin guard operates, exposing the cutter head requires that the work piece slides along the angle between the fence and the table in order to contact the wedge which will force the guard to open. Based on your reconstruction of the event, your body was only ever angled for that sort of motion when you were using a push stick to convey a piece over the cutter -- at which time the cutter was covered by the work piece and push stick.


Please understand that my motivation here is to assist you find a way to continue to enjoy wood working without your family living in fear that "pop" will have a "turn" and entangle himself in the jointer or another machine.
To that end I'm strongly of the view that the "pork chop" style guard is nowhere near as safe as a Euro style guard when used properly.


While it's quite some time since I last studied the Aust/NZ risk standard, I agree with your assessment that

This is one of those events that fits into the plausible but unlikely category but has serious enough outcomes (i.e. digit amputation) to warrant attention.

I think, given your medical issues, you should upgrade "unlikely" to "possible". That is unless you can associate the probability of "taking a turn" with the time of day, or the time since you last took your medications.

Moby

I should have prefaced my post above by wishing you well with your continued recovery, and thanking you for sharing your experience and being open to constructive comment.

Please accept my apology for not so doing.

Ian,

I agree with everything you have said in the two posts above.

With my comment "I was not actually performing a task on the jointer" I was attempting to make it clear that I was not actually pasing a work piece over the cutter head, I don't deny that yes I was using the jointer, and yes it should be turned off when you change tasks or leave the machine. I did neither, as the "restacking" was nothing more than bumping the stack back into alignment, a few seconds at best.

I am critically examining how I can make the machine "safer." Thank you for the links to the Martin T54. Your comment "your fingers would have most likely landed on the guard pushing it down" highlights the issue that most safety features, guards etc are not entirely fool proof - there may be a certain combination of events / factors that will render them ineffective (or a smarter idiot!).

With my cardiac condition I have always assessed my risk factor as high and possible, hence my apparent obsession with safety. (ps the plausible but unlikely assessment was for a typical "healthy" person.)

Thank you for your unemotive and critical assessment of the event and for your suggestions, I truly appreciate your comments. I have to find a better and safer method.

Moby

I've been travelling a bit lately and have had some time to think about your predicament ...
For what it's worth, I think your best course is to re-examine your whole workshop procedure.

On the assumption that you WILL have another dizzy spell, I'm of the view that when one occurs you need to be protected from any rotating machinery. Push sticks and guards will go so far, but the rest will depend on changes to your methods of work.

In the case of the jointer, I think a properly used euro-style guard and push stick will provide adequate protection while you're passing a piece over the machine, but you need to rethink what you do once the piece is wholly on the outfeed table. I think you need to
1. consciously move past the cutter with the piece being machined
2. place the piece just machined somewhere stable
3. step away from the machine
4. and only then return to the infeed side of the machine, choosing a path that keeps any stabilising hand away from the jointer's tables.

yes, machining will take longer and yes, you will get more exercise in the shed, but by confining your movement to pre-planned paths, a stumble should not result in you contacting the cutter head.


hope this helps in some way

Ian, thank you for your advice and thoughts on this matter. I'm already pretty much doing what you have described above. I'm pretty pedantic about keeping a trip free work space and like to have a reasonably clear work zone but like many other wood workers I don't have the luxury of a dedicated work shop / shed. The process I had going on the day was a straight work flow, which was very effective but obviously not fool proof.

I have been very conscious of the fact that I can experience an episode at any time no matter how stable I have been in the period before I operate machinery. I fully realize that it is somewhat of a lottery when I choose to enjoy my hobby and use machines. This has been discussed at length with my GP and my cardiac specialist, both agree that I or any other able bodied / "healthy" person probably faces more significant risk in a vehicle on my way to work ( have you seen how aggressive Townsville drivers are these days).

After managing my cardiac condition for almost ten years, I just have a little advantage in that I know I have the condition, what the "odds" are, and what are the "triggers" so I can prepare for it, by making the process and machines as safe as I can make them. I fear for the guys who carry on blissfully with "it won't happen to me" attitude - we are all ageing and more prone to these medical conditions.

After watching the video clip (and others) on the other jointer thread I'm not overly convinced that the bridge guard is any safer than a pork chop guard for me. As you say I have to concentrate on process and habit now and continually reassess what I am doing if I wish to continue with my hobby.

The guard designs are such that an operator can bypass some or all of the safety features, by not setting them up correctly or deliberately jamming them open OR can operate them in an unintended manner i.e. open a pork chop guard from the front. One thing I have done since is change my body positioning relative to the cutter head - I now stand closer to the out feed side with smaller stock (~300mm). A power feed is probably a better option though.

I have to sympathise, over the weekend I was using my largest roughing out gouge on too tight a curve, it jammed, causing the toolrest to drop. My hand went between the rest & the rotating wood - tore the sige of my hand open, now nursing several stitches.

Lesson Learnt.

Originally Posted by dr4g0nfly

I have to sympathise, over the weekend I was using my largest roughing out gouge on too tight a curve, it jammed, causing the toolrest to drop. My hand went between the rest & the rotating wood - tore the sige of my hand open, now nursing several stitches.

Lesson Learnt.

Hope you heal fast! "Causing the tool rest to drop" sounds a little strange - at least it didn't break like in some of the reports I have heard of.

I think there are a lot more of your type of injury than we hear about as most turners just go off the grid for a while until the injury heals, rather than be embarrased by their mates. It is so easy to injure oneself around machinery, a simple act like yours - just push the limits a little to far and whamo its over in less than a second.

As Woodpixels says above I am very safety conscious but not over zealously so (but I guess that depends upon your risk tolerance.) - I plan my work tasks so that I do not take unnecessary risks or perform tasks that present quite high risk or present unacceptable consequences. No prizes for being a dead hero.