Thread: Why buy when you can make? or why make when you can buy?

Originally Posted by Phily

I'm not sure about parallels but finicky on size most definitely. I must have looked at a hundred or more wood turning handles and have only found one consistent feature - they are all different. Some folk have worked out that their hand best fits a 40mm diameter that tapers to 25mm. Others have worked out that a 32mm rod works best etc etc etc. And there are plenty of folk that are adamant that their design, to the mm, works best for them. How this is evaluated I have no idea. I have spoken to professional turners who have determined that a particular shape aids with their production turning eg timed at 18 minutes to turn an ash blank to a finished, waxed 6inch bowl. But how does a hobbyist determine that a 32mm diameter works better than a 34mm diameter? Now that is a question I would love to hear an answer to!

I think it comes to whatever each individual finds most comfortable and efficient. We are all different. In my own situation I found that small handles made my hands cramp, so I made bigger ones. I would put a hunk of timber between centers and make a roughly cigar shape, grab it in the middle and if it felt good make a spigot for the ferrule, drill, finish and glue in the tool. After reading Hughie's rule of thumb about making a circle with middle finger and thumb and all the ergonomic information, etc. above, what I have been making falls within those parameters.

I think it comes to whatever feels good while using, and doesn't make your hands or back hurt after you have had a long session at the lathe, is the solution. The same applies to spindle hight, I like mine higher than the recommended elbow hight because I do 90 plus % bowls and don't like to be hunched over while hollowing.

For roughing out bowls whose blanks that have been hacked out of timber with a chain saw, I like a 5/8 inch bowl gouge with a big fat, long, handle of dense timber to minimize the banging of an interrupted cut. Those who make delicate finials, would prefer something else.

As has been mentioned many times,"fit the tool to the task at hand".

I hafted more than a dozen blades as crooked carving knives, Pacific Northwest native style.
All the handles, laminate glue-ups of rosewood and mahogany, were made oversize.
With a #5 plane and spokeshaves, 7/8" was about where they all wound up.

I could be working with the same knife for 2+ days so the size that reduces grip strain is important.

Originally Posted by Paul39

After reading Hughie's rule of thumb about making a circle with middle finger and thumb and all the ergonomic information, etc. above, what I have been making falls within those parameters.

I think it comes to whatever feels good while using, and doesn't make your hands or back hurt after you have had a long session at the lathe, is the solution. The same applies to spindle hight, I like mine higher than the recommended elbow hight because I do 90 plus % bowls and don't like to be hunched over while hollowing

Now we are getting somewhere, this is good. So by following Hughie's rule we know we will have a handle that is going to be a reasonable base to work from. Then work through lathe position, posture and ensure there is a good foam matt on the floor to help take some of the leg pressure. Once all of the lathe/posture side has been set up correctly have a long session at the lathe to test the handle. Having set up the lathe correctly it is likely that any hand, elbow, shoulder aches are a consequence of inappropriate handle shape, if that's the case then re shape the handle and when fresh, start the test again. One caution, if you have a shoulder problem it could be because the chisel(s) are not sharp enough or that you are being too aggressive - both resulting in the tool being pushed too hard into the timber - which will strain your shoulder.

Nothing to add to the conversation but wanted to say this has been a very informative read, I'll definitely be applying a lot of this knowledge to my own handles in future.

I think it comes to whatever feels good while using, and doesn't make your hands or back hurt after you have had a long session at the lathe, is the solution. The same applies to spindle hight, I like mine higher than the recommended elbow hight because I do 90 plus % bowls and don't like to be hunched over while hollowing.


As has been mentioned many times,"fit the tool to the task at hand".[/QUOTE]

I have mine centre height much higher than the recommended elbow as well, around 1200mm.

Maybe not as simple as it seems Hughie to work out the right tool for the job. In my research I came across a really interesting article written a few years back by the International Labour Office in Geneva. It talked about "Skill Fatigue", the phenomenon wherein using a poorly designed or inappropriate tool causes both physical and mental fatigue to creep up on the user. Usually they are oblivious to the fact that there is a problem with the tool and therefore don't realise that they are becoming fatigued. The symptoms include an increasing preparedness to accept a lower level of quality and increased error rates. Ever wondered why after 6hrs+ at the lathe, just doing the final finishing cut when Wham, a bloody great catch?? Maybe, just maybe a bit of skill fatigue has set in. The article talks about tool use, and in that regard I guess that incorrect lathe set up would be as big a contributor to fatigue as handle shape - if not bigger.

Originally Posted by Phily

Maybe not as simple as it seems Hughie to work out the right tool for the job. In my oic

ksresearchY I came across a really interesting article written a few years back by the International Labour Office in Geneva. It talked about "Skill Fatigue", the phenomenon wherein using a poorly designed or inappropriate tool causes

physical and mental fatigue to creep up on the user. Usually, they are oblivious to the fact that there is a problem with the tool and therefore don't realise that they are becoming fatigued. The symptoms include an increasing preparedness to accept a lower level of quality and increased error rates. Ever wondered why after 6hrs+ at the lathe, just doing the final finishing cut when Wham, a bloody great catch?? Maybe, just maybe a bit of skill fatigue has set in. The article talks about tool use, and in that regard, I guess that incorrect lathe set up would be as big a contributor to fatigue as handle shape - if not bigger.

Yoicks! I don't think I have ever spent 6 straights hours at my lathe. But I take your point. I tend to be doing several things at once in the shed and most things I turn can be done in around 2-3 hours as a long job. The carving etc, yeah well, that can take a bit of time.
But the centre height, my foam handles etc are all developments over time of what works well for me. One of the most successful changes for me earlier was to get rid of the white knuckle grip. I now have a more relaxed grip 90% of the time and to date, this has not been a problem. The idea of hanging onto the handle for grim death never did really appeal plus it's so damned tiring.
The end of the day I think we all have to find what works for each of us. I suspect that age, fitness, height, personal susceptibilities etc all play a part. ie I can wander around my shed in thongs on the concrete floor all weekend and it won't bother me, yet I have a mate who has anti-fatigue mats everywhere as the concrete floors kills him.

found this and makes an interesting point
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeands...iness-burkeman

Several interesting points and gives a good description as to why folk like us woodies need to have shed time!!

I mainly buy tools with handles but have also made my own I find that some of the suppliers of turning tools that their handles are just right for me so I tend to make the ones I need close to their design. For the smaller tools I tend to leave them with the small handles as I use these for very fine detail work and a large handle leads to being slightly heavy handed.

Like many hobby turners I don't spend long hours in the shed just enough to keep it fun. and also because I can no longer stand for long periods in one place due to back problems

Originally Posted by Dalboy

I mainly buy tools with handles but have also made my own I find that some of the suppliers of turning tools that their handles are just right for me

I think this is the nub of it. Just about all turners talk about handles that are "right for me", but my question is "How do you know it is right for you?". It seems that there are no guidelines on size, shape, grip etc. Most of us simple turn a shape, hold it, maybe modify it then use it. Over time we work out a shape that we think is appropriate to our requirements. But is it? Does the shape actually perform as we think? Does it actually minimise fatigue? Does it actually encourage a controlled rather than white knuckled grip? Does it really absorb vibration? etc etc. As was mentioned very early in these posts on handle design, "its a can of worms". But I'm on a mission

A man with a mission This may not help in the mission, but here goes. Heres a shot of my wooden handles, variations loosely depend on usage.

385218_137389526422699_512704287_n.jpg

Originally Posted by Phily

I think this is the nub of it. Just about all turners talk about handles that are "right for me", but my question is "How do you know it is right for you?". It seems that there are no guidelines on size, shape, grip etc. Most of us simple turn a shape, hold it, maybe modify it then use it. Over time we work out a shape that we think is appropriate to our requirements. But is it? Does the shape actually perform as we think? Does it actually minimise fatigue? Does it actually encourage a controlled rather than white knuckled grip? Does it really absorb vibration? etc etc. As was mentioned very early in these posts on handle design, "its a can of worms". But I'm on a mission

I find that if it is comfortable to hold and handles well then why change the design, if it meets those then I can turn for longer periods of time but if a handle is uncomfortable then it makes me want to make one that is nice to use.

This in the end makes me enjoy turning that much more, after all that is what it is all about for me enjoyment of this hobby.

Originally Posted by Phily

I think this is the nub of it. Just about all turners talk about handles that are "right for me", but my question is "How do you know it is right for you?". ..

for me it has been a bit of trial and error - and now I make what seems and feels comfortable. It works for me and I don't feel the need to think too deeply on the whys and whatevers - it works and I'm happy with it