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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Tooradin,Victoria,Australia
    Age
    73
    Posts
    11,918

    Default Ci! Rougher road test on spindles.

    A lot of people have wondered about using the Ci! Rougher on spindle work. I hope that this report helps you make up your mimd. Bear in mind that my work is a little different to most.

    When I first saw the thread about the Ci1 Rougher I wondered whether or not it could be used for my sort of work.

    My wrists and arms are not as young as they used to be so anything that makes it easier on them the better.

    I had my first opportunity to see it at DJ's get together and thought that it had possibilities. Jeff brought it to my place and I tried it.

    I ordered the Rougher with a straight across cutter and 5 extra tips of the same sort. Ordering is a bit complex with having to go through 2 places to pay for the tool and then freight separately.

    Service from Craig is excellent, and the tool arrived 10 days later with the a video.

    An extra lock screw and a hand written note thanking me for the purchase was a nice touch. It may pay to put an Allen key of the right size in with the tool as well, as some may not have one that small.

    The video that comes with the tool is very good and contains all the appropriate safety warnings. It gives reasonably good instruction on its use. I like the bit where the speed is increased and you hear a spanner rattle on the bed and it gets backed off a touch. Reinforces what I have been saying: " Speed up until it vibrates then back off."

    The timber for the test was an old telephone pole 440mm in diameter and 1.2 long. It was Tallowwood that had been in the ground at this end.

    I deliberately chose this log as the banjos could not fit under it so the tool rest was supported only at the ends. On big diameter stuff we quite often have to do this and as you decrease the diameter you add more banjos to support the rest.

    Normally using a gouge you can only go about 75-100 mm from the support because of the forces exerted on the rest cause it to vibrate and flex.It is 1.6m long after all.

    I was hoping that the Rougher could go a little further than that because all the force is downward. This proved to be correct as I could go out about 300mm (possibly more) before requiring an additional banjo.

    First saving.

    On a log that size we probably sharpen the gouge 30-40 times in the roughing process but the Rougher so far has done about 2.5 logs before having to rotate the tip. We rotate the tip 180 degrees because the sides cop as much wear as the front.

    Second saving.

    In use the tool is easy to use with very strain on the handle end, as long as the rest is kept as close as possible to the work. We start close but in some places are up to 50mm off the rest and you do feel a bit of strain at the handle.

    Some have commented on the handle shape but for comfort and "pushing" power it is ideal as it doesn't allow any slip down the handle. Very comfortable to use and less strain on the arms than a gouge.

    Third saving.

    It does take some getting used to holding the tool horizontal. The hand at the rest must be against the rest as a guide or it can run away from you and start cutting deeper and deeper until it grabs, and it can grab but not as violently as a gouge. When it is sharp (new cutter) it cuts fantastic.

    Plunge or sizing cuts are easy and it cuts extremely well.

    But be warned. Like all tools consider it as a lever, the rest as the fulcrum, the log as the load and you as the effort.

    When the load is greater than the effort a few things can happen. You can break the handle like Cliff did. You can have the tool bend your arm up, knock the face shield off (catching an ear along the way), take the tip off a glove ( don't ask me how), bend the tool (about 2mm overall) and force you to have a cuppa.

    I might mention that I was about 140 mm off the rest as well. Not advisable with any tool but I was testing the limits of the tool. I found them and won't do it again until next time.

    On this particular log the part that had been in the ground had almost petrified and normal HSS chisels lost an edge in about a nano second. The Rougher was the only tool that could cut the end but even it had to have the tip replaced afterwards.

    Fourth saving.

    The finish from the tool is shown in the last photo. I was not using a concave cutter but the straight cutter and this is the finish that I expected. You can get a better finish by using lighter cuts.

    It has a learning curve and I would suggest that beginners use the tool with care until they learn the principles of cutting.

    Experienced turners also have to learn that it is a scraper and must be used appropriately. It is very easy to want to drop the handle as you are used to with other turning tools.

    In summary, the tool exceeded my expectations for the sort of work I do and I am very happy with it, but for spindle work on small items like table or chair legs a gouge would be quicker and cleaner.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,354

    Default

    , thanks for taking the pains to do this checkout. Great explanation for this tool. May have to try one. But I'm almost tool poor, now.
    Thanks again. Very easy for even me to understand.
    Cheers
    Al
    Some minds are like concrete thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Aus.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    12,746

    Default

    Good call .

    Thanks for the post.
    Cheers, Ern

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Cranbourne West
    Age
    72
    Posts
    3,612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    ..........
    When the load is greater than the effort a few things can happen. You can break the handle like Cliff did. You can have the tool bend your arm up, knock the face shield off (catching an ear along the way), take the tip off a glove ( don't ask me how), bend the tool (about 2mm overall) and force you to have a cuppa.
    .......................
    , no one or nothing needs to force you to have a cuppa .
    To grow old is inevitable.... To grow up is optional

    Confidence, the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.

    What could possibly go wrong.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Berwick, Melbourne
    Age
    64
    Posts
    542

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OGYT View Post
    , thanks for taking the pains to do this checkout. Great explanation for this tool. May have to try one. But I'm almost tool poor, now.
    Thanks again. Very easy for even me to understand.
    Cheers
    G'day OGYT. I just found this on a web site and couldn't resist
    Say it isn't true
    ________________________________________
    Cheers
    Shorty

    If I can't turn it I'll burn it

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Kiewa
    Age
    64
    Posts
    1,636

    Default

    and crew,

    I've been meaning to put my own test Ci1 report up on the forum too, so this one was timely.

    I must admit to resorting to the Ci1 and my HD scrapers on my platters and shallow bowls. I still seem to have problems with rippling using the gouge, but hey, doesn't every novice?

    So today, I used the Ci1 on both KD and seasoned redgum blocks - 4 by 4 - to get to round. Fiddleback redgum, so I was anticipating some serious tearout. But not so. Hard to believe but true.

    I'll bring the lumps down to the turn-on.

    My thinking is that any novice would benefit from the tool - and, as said, it doesn't need sharpening every two minutes. I have stacks of redgum in various dimensions and most of it is very hard, or at least kiln dried. The Ci1 is just the answer for that kind of work too.

    Jeff

  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    North of the coathanger, Sydney
    Age
    68
    Posts
    9,417

    Default



    thanks - very helpful and informative

    Do you think Energy Australia will notice the power pole on the corner missing?

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    texas, queensland
    Posts
    1,239

    Default

    just found this post and had a look at those things and they are almost the same as what i made for myself 30 years ago with the help of my engineer next door mate .
    i used gauge plate ( easy to get ) cut it to shape drill it then heat treat it and allen screw it to a shaft . still got my first home made one some where

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Nerang Queensland
    Age
    66
    Posts
    10,766

    Default

    Cool test Robo, certainly big and hard enough.

    What speed did you end up running at?

    Since you now have your own, I assume you don't want me to bring mine down, unless you want to try my handle.

    See you next weekend.
    Neil
    ____________________________________________
    Every day presents an opportunity to learn something new

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    2,794

    Default

    Interesting. Some people almost make a religion out of coincidences, but even without the spiritual overtones this is uncanny. I have spent some time yesterday researching this tool and came to the conclusion that, whatever its effectiveness, it is something very easy and cheap to make. To my understanding, putting a CI on the tip of a square bar is not something patentable, so anybody can make them. With the AUD under 70c US I can not see a huge market at over $200 a pop. Some members have already mentioned making their own, won't be long before somebody starts making them commercially here. If there is any market left, given that I might have found an idea for Christmas presents to all turner friends... You can make handles, can you?

    Did I miss anything?

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    kyogle N.S.W
    Age
    50
    Posts
    4,844

    Default

    Good stuff. Thanks mate.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Minbun, FNQ, Australia
    Age
    66
    Posts
    12,881

    Default Rough?

    I didn't loose the tip off my glove.... I wasn't wearing any.

    I didn't loose my face shield.... I wasn't wearing one.

    I didn't catch my ear along the way.

    I didn't bend the tool.... I bent the tool rest instead.

    They are good fun.

    I have copied the handle, made it slightly oversize & out of good Ozzie timber this time.

    I even managed to do a fair job of the colour match.
    I'll post some pics when I put the final touches on it.
    Cliff.
    If you find a post of mine that is missing a pic that you'd like to see, let me know & I'll see if I can find a copy.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Pakenham, outer Melb SE suburb, Vic
    Age
    54
    Posts
    4,158

    Default

    Great review, thanks


    Cheers..................Sean


    The beatings will continue until morale improves.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Flinders Shellharbour
    Posts
    5,689

    Default

    effectiveness, it is something very easy and cheap to make. To my understanding, putting a CI on the tip of a square bar is not something patentable, so anybody can make them. With the AUD under 70c US I can not see a huge market at over $200 a pop. Some members have already mentioned making their own, won't be long before somebody starts making them commercially here. If there is any market left, given that I might have found an idea for Christmas presents to all turner friends... You can make handles, can you?
    Your right,$200 is a bit over the top. I looked at the C1 and thought the same the only challenge is the cutter. Most if not all the cutters here are for metal work and so will not have much of a sharp edge and a different form on top of the cutter.

    I am still looking into it to find a suitable cutter when I do I will be in business.
    Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working. — Pablo Picasso


  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Aus.
    Age
    71
    Posts
    12,746

    Default

    I guess butchery has its place (envisage sour scowl ;-} .)
    Cheers, Ern

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