Critique pictures. Read 1st post - Page 2

Harry72 · #16 30th Sep 2007, 09:47 AM

Ok I'll brave some crit.

Im a very green newbie, only had my lathe since the Adelaide WWWshow(bout 2mths)see my "me too" thread, these two pieces are my 2nd and 3rd that have been finished although I have rough turned about 30 sopping wet silky oak bowl blanks for future use.

1. A bowl made from some fire wood its Acacia salisina aka Broughton Willow. Size is about 150mm in dia 40mm tall.

Harry72 · #17 30th Sep 2007, 09:57 AM

2. A lidded box(is that correct?), made from a fence post, I would'nt have a clue what wood it is?
When I made it I didnt start far enough down the post, as you can see there are many cracks and defects from the end splits!
Im also having trouble with massive tearout in this wood... its got me buggered I tried and tried but no good

Also found out why you dont use wax with nail holes... and I forgot to finish the inside of the lid(twas 4am in the morn...)
When hollowing it I used a 1/2" bradpoint bit to guage the depth but then thought... I know I'll use a 2" saw tooth forsner, which you can quite clearly see!
I couldnt get my tools in far enough with the tool post in there, must invest in some sort of hollowing kit(any recommendations?)
Size is approx 90mm dia and 150mm tall.

Both pieces are finished to 1500 then EEE'd shellawaxed then hit with trad wax.

Christopha · #18 30th Sep 2007, 10:48 AM

I don't want to become the woodturning forum resident critic and I look forward to others having a go here, especially if they wish to critique my critique!

Having said that....
Harry, while you might only be a rank newchum you are certainly having a good go!
IMHO the form of any turning should flow, whether it be a bowl or a table leg. Your first bowl there has an abrupt change of shape 2/3 of the way down the side which does it no favours. The base of the bowl, while maybe quite stable on the table, is too big and the bowl just seems to sort of squat there like a blob. I like a foot on a bowl myself that while it can be still quite large lifts the bowl so that the form sort of seems to flow into the table if you get what I'm trying to describe. Also, as a rough guide, try making the "foot" of the bowl about 1/3 of the diameter. This is usually a good place to start.
I am not going to say anything about your lidded box as you seem to have said it for yourself mate!

I don't know whether this applies to you or not Harry but I know one of the blues I made in my early days was to try to maximise the amount of timber I had left when I finished a turning, some sort of economy I s'pose, but really if you are going to e.g. turn a bowl then forget how much the blank cost, forget how much you are going to "waste" in shavings, just find the best form that you can and make it appear!
As for forms, don't just look at other turners and their works, look at pottery, look at glass, look at every bloody vessel you see and think about whether you can use that form or even just part of it in your work. After a while you will become quite obsessive about finding shapes, forms, curves etc etc

OK, back into my box now...

dai sensei · #19 30th Sep 2007, 11:51 AM

Not sure if this is going to work, too many pictures/posters. I do not consider myself anywhere near an expert, but I will add comments

Pat - What is happening with the inside, you seem to have various steps, not sure if they are deliberate or inexperience. Is it a pot pourri rather than a bowl?

Skew - I also sometimes use organoil to bring out grain/colour, but as Christopha has mentioned, it does tend to bleed through and I usually have to refinish a few months later. Not sure if I agree with Christopha on not using a shellac first, I often do on open grained timbers like Banksia, I find it binds the grain together giving a better substrate for the final finishing.

I do like your shape and concept though. You've got a nice sharp edge on the finial, not easy with Banksia, for me anyway

Harry - I tend to agree with Cristopha. Changes in the sides should either be very sharp, or be more a continual curve. Personally I would have the entire side one continuous curve, but that is personal taste also.

As for the tear out, high speed and fine cuts with sharp tools. Alternatively lots more sanding. To hide problems with turn marks at the base on the inside, you can also cheat and glue a bit of felt at the bottom.

Baz · #20 30th Sep 2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

So please be brutally honest, I know there are tool marks, catches & sanding marks. Talking about sanding it's sanded to 1000, then Triple E and St#tHot wax.

Pat, I see that you are using wax on burl timber, if there are any cracks,voids or bark inclusions the wax will accumulate in there and after a while it will turn white and not look very attractive. You can try and blow it out with compressed air and or pick it out. I preffer an oil finish on burl bowls.

Cheers
Barry

Pat · #21 30th Sep 2007, 01:36 PM

Neil, rank inexperience/experimentation

Barry, I've noticed that, so when I can recue it from the cave of doom, I'll pick out the wax. I'll try some DO on the next one.

Christopha · #22 30th Sep 2007, 01:36 PM

Burl bowls!! Bloody things... I usually finish my burl bowls with spray lacquer and then try to "soften" the finish a little with 0000, a fine white Scotch Brite or even a special pair of velour trousers that my son wore when he was about 3 (he turned 23 last friday!). Baz is dead right about wax not being the finish of choice here. Shellac/French polish from our esteemed U and Beaut is also a good one to use here. I tend to avoid oils as A: they darken the timber B: they may need to be reapplied periodically.
One point I would like to make when turning burls. The form is still all important. The most spectacular burl will still look daggy and wasted if the form lets it down.

Christopha · #23 30th Sep 2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dai sensei

As for the tear out, high speed and fine cuts with sharp tools. Alternatively lots more sanding. To hide problems with turn marks at the base on the inside, you can also cheat and glue a bit of felt at the bottom.

I agree with the speed as long as it is safe, sharp tools are a given but oh no! Not bloody felt, I hate the stuff with a passion! If I see felt on a piece then its' value in my eyes dives to zero as it tells me that there is probably something nasty hidden there and the turner doesn't care..

reeves · #24 30th Sep 2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopha

Seriously, the fact that you accept that it isn't perfect, that you feel you know what is wrong shows that the best critic is yourself.... the piece isn't too bad at all really. Not "show quality" but certainly a damned long way from firewood!

thanks Chris and thanks the others who responded, Ern, Dia Sensi who called d me skew?. I have redone it and flatted out the banksia insert humpy bit, its better

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopha

The only thing I would suggest is that you sort out the finishing... I wouldn't use Organoil as it may "float" the Shellawax off and give you a blotchy finish in time. The Shellac step should be given a miss too, ideally, as after using your EEE to get the desired surface finish you then need to burnish the Shellawax into the surface. If you seal the suface you cannot get that Shellawax to head in...
OK, end of 'critique'. I hope I have been of some help.

yes u have thanks, i have redone the finish in thin coats of just EEE and shellawx glow, its better.

I was really just experiementing with the different finishes seeing what combination gave what results on different woods, i didnt expect them all to do well. Lke sensi i was using the oil to darken things and the shellac to provide a harder base coat on some tricky woods, Banksia is a bit fluppity to finish and i am concerned about getting a good long lasting finish and haveing a finish that suits the project usage of the item...i have found some to 'go away' after a while..

what would you say are good lon lasting finsihing techniques ?

Chris, why dont you let us know some of yr expereinces as a pro turner, how its evolved, what u have learnt about finishes and/or specific turned items over the years...

I havent committed to trying to a pro turner yet, i have been enjoying the product line i currenlty sell, drop spindles, and have been experimenting with a few pieces i wth a view to offering other products, just developing prototyps, techniques, laerning what i can do and how long it takes, collecting and learning more about specific timbers.

The whole 'how to sell' thing is something i have been looking at more. My current shop is online, http://spindlemaker.etsy.com and its been good getting consistent sales and feedback from customers..am thinking of broadening out into other turned items but its gotta be a sensible thing with a plan before i put much stake in it...

Dai Sensei, to get the sharp bit on the finial/lid knob i used a thin hamlet parting tool at around 45 degree angle to the work after making a small dome in the banksia pod..works fine..you can increase the sharpness of gradient of the edge by increasing the angle you hold the tool at..i know its poossible not a 'safe technique angle the chisel far from 90 degrees but i had no problems with it at all..

we'll see how it goes and thanks for the feedback mate..

hope all is well in Beachport and u get yr tools back soon, sure is a great part of the world down there..

heres pic of the modified and refinished banksia box..

cheeeeeers
john

reeves · #25 30th Sep 2007, 05:43 PM

Ok heres another one, i think this thread is great and am enjoying the postees and critical responses of everyone..

This one is a small myrtle burl box with huon pine lid and ebonsised budgeroo finial. Its about 15 cm wide by 7 cm deep at the finial..Finished in organiol, EEE wax and shellawax, thin coates buffed high speed at 3000 rpm.

I think its worked out pretty well, the HP is a bit bright for total color matching but should darken a bit after a few weeks. The myrtle burl is very patcy in color, from brown tones to patches of pink/light purple.

The lid join is a touch uneven on the burnt edge and i dont think the bowl is as hollewed as it could have been,a bit chunky. The finial was intentionally simple and seems to fit well and looks fine,a touch bulbous perhaps but maybe thats just me...;-), Its useful for opening the box.

Critique away guys..

Harry72 · #26 30th Sep 2007, 06:01 PM

Cool thanks guys, so gradual curves or sharp are the preferred... not half'n'half

And freshly sharpened tools + highspeed for tear out, which shape tool is the best for no tear out a skew or scraper?(or am I missing the point?)

Chris, the bowl did have a foot, I thought I'd have a go at sneaky feet... yep I killed it

I think F&E has made a valid point, perhaps another sub area here for crit threads? Could we have it only clickable in here instead of the main forum list?

rsser · #27 30th Sep 2007, 06:03 PM

John, lovely timbers, colour contrasts and finishes.

Maybe go for an acorn shape in the main body and scale down the lid and finial. (Sketching out beforehand is worth every wasted moment you do it.).

Re finishes (Christopha), a quality DO doesn't need more than 3 coats usually, is ideal for burls, and the Rustins eg. won't raise the grain the way Organoil hard burnishing oil does. (Organoil DO is new to the market and I haven't given it the time to misbehave yet).

Yes, oil finishes darken the timber and with light coloured stock this can be undesirable. But with any contrast in the grain it can increase it usefully and on some timbers it performs like magic (eg. blackwood).

Wax on burls as noted is troublesome, unless you shell out big bikkies for a rotary bristle brush, or want to spend some time with a hard toothbrush.

Wayne Blanch · #28 30th Sep 2007, 06:22 PM

I think that this thread is great and will allow me, when I next get the camera out, to access the stored wisdom of the forum in order to continue to learn.

I am a little reluctant to make too many comments regarding peoples work when I am so inexperienced myself. Especially when people who consistently produce work that I would struggle to match myself. (Like yours Reeves) put their work up for comment.

But what the hell, heres my two bobs worth!

Great box Reeves,

The first thing to say is that my comments are only observations regarding my personal taste and as tastes vary so greatly the comments are probably worthless anyway.

Generally I like the overall shape and the choice of HP and the myrtle, as you say the HP will probably darken and become more rich in colour as time passes. However I wonder if there are too many stark colour changes with the ebonsised finial??

As you say the finial may be a little thick however it is certainly functional.

Cheers
Wayne

DJ's Timber · #29 30th Sep 2007, 07:19 PM

This is a from a Blackwood blank from Tassie that a mate gave me and I didn't want to waste it and had it sitting on the shelves for a couple of years before I turned it.

I originally turned up some prototypes from pine before I committed to turning this one to get a sense of what the shape would be like.

Overall I am pretty happy with the way it turned out, looking back on it now (turned this about 4 or 5yrs ago) I could have been a bit more fussy on sanding the edges, keeping them square rather then rounding them over.

I think from memory I finished it with EEE, 3 or 4 coats of Rustins DO and I think I use Arborwax Burnishing Wax

Don't hold back, I will take it on the chin

Christopha · #30 30th Sep 2007, 07:31 PM

Reeves, once again the critique needed for your piece has been adequately addressed by the creator...

DJ, Interesting piece in the Vic Wood style but for this piece ideally the four points would be supporting it, not the base of the bowl itself. Also you have a rim detail there that is either not photographed well or is too indistinct to be worthwhile.

Please remember that my "critique" is merely my opinion and you may make up your own mind whether it is valid or not. It is offered only in support.