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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsser View Post
    Simplest would be for the thread title to invite comments.

    A separate forum would end up in overlaps IMO as discussion got down to 'how do you do this'.
    Yep. Moderators have enough to do now.

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  3. #32
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    Well this thread has got things jumping. A good all round think on why we post on here. I feel sure most post because of a mixed bag of reasons. I think the main reason most of post is to share information. I have learned a lot from this site and in return put a little bit back in. Even mistakes made by some are valuable information to others.It is nice to get praise but i think we are all looking to learn more and expect to get some comment on where things can improve. I find I get both and so far have been content with the general tone of the site as it is. We are after all a collection of people who share a common intrest not students submitting projects for marking. If the site had a panel of judges with the necessary bona fides then that may be a bit of fun to run our modest efforts past them. Just a thought.

    Regards
    John

  4. #33
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    John, I don't think the word "Judge" in any of its' forms is appropriate for this forum. I don't believe that any of us should set ourselves above others as god-like figures who denigrate and discourage anything not to our personal tastes...

    I would like to post a list from a book by William R Duce. He is a small scale turner whose rules fit, I think, pretty much all turning.
    Golden Rules Of Woodturning
    1. Turning should always be fun.
    2.Turning is a personal exploration, so satisfy your inner muse first.
    3.A successful turning is a balance between technique and design.
    4. The success of your project is dependentupon a positive attitude, not expensive tools or secret tricks.
    5. There is no shame in making a mistake, just try not to make the same one twice.
    6. Never stop looking for inspiration, especially outside the world of woodturning.
    7. A finished turningwill always look better than one only half turned. By finishing what you start you may just surprise yourself.
    8. The properwayto use any tool is whichever way works best for you.
    9. Never be discouraged by people saying, "That is pretty, what is it?"
    10. Design gimmicks and fads have the approximate lifespan of free burl at a turners convention. Avoid them at all costs.

    These "rules" may not suit everyone but are a good start I think..... comments?

  5. #34
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    If the grey matter is working this morning: the World of Woodturners site in the US has the option of you posting a photo which auto. goes into 'your' album and also of adding it to the open Critique album. Site mods then decide if they wish to allocate it to one of their cohort of experienced turners who will then provide the critique. Ordinary members can make comments as well.

    That's one way of doing it but it involves a deal of work; so I'd suggest we try out the option of 'constructive comment invited' in the thread title or post opening.

    Or mark your pic posts with *** if you just want to share or if the work is too close to your heart still to hear criticisms ;-}
    Last edited by rsser; 29th September 2007 at 11:22 AM. Reason: spellink
    Cheers, Ern

  6. #35
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    Well done Christopha, not that I am an expert, but I share your view often criticism is due but only praise is given.

    I believe in constructive criticism and always welcome it, and try to give it where possible. Unfortunately I have never mastered being suttle and I know I have offended some members when that was not my intention. So I often resort to the old, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

    I am always busy these days though so don't get time to post as much as I'd like, especially with the increase in threads these days, so just because I don't post doesn't mean I think the work isn't good.
    Neil
    ____________________________________________
    Every day presents an opportunity to learn something new

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsser View Post
    If the grey matter is working this morning: the World of Woodturners site in the US has the option of you posting a photo which auto. goes into 'your' album and also of adding it to the open Critique album. Site mods then decide if they wish to allocate it to one of their cohort of experienced turners who will then provide the critique. Ordinary members can make comments as well.

    That's one way of doing it but it involves a deal of work; so I'd suggest we try out the option of 'constructive comment invited' in the thread title or post opening.

    Or mark your pic posts with *** if you just want to share or if the work is too close to your heart still to hear criticisms ;-}
    Thanks Ern for finding out and letting us know that there is one site doing in a much more bureaucratic way virtually what I was proposing. I greatly appreciate your fairness. Your suggestion of self-regulation is certainly easier to implement, my concern is that it requires all posters, including newbies, to be aware and willing to do it in that particular way, otherwise nothing changes. How do you propose to impart/ascertain/control this awareness in a practical way? If it is not done in a structured way, IMHO it would end up fading away unless, heaven forbid, some self-appointed "educator" is forever steering posters towards doing the right thing. And it would still require mods to edit any incorrectly marked thread titles to maintain the credibility of the method.

  8. #37
    ss_11000 is offline You've got to risk it to get the biscuit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest View Post
    my concern is that it requires all posters, including newbies, to be aware and willing to do it in that particular way, otherwise nothing changes. How do you propose to impart/ascertain/control this awareness in a practical way?.
    make an announcement ( thread at the top of forums that no one can post to ) or make a sticky thread at the top of forums with guidelines for posting pics.
    most newbies would read th stickies and announcement ( at least i think they would?)
    S T I R L O

  9. #38
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    Yeah, that might work.

    Or the regulars respond to each first-time post of a pic of 'what I've done' by asking whether they just want to share their joy or would like considered critical responses.

    This forum has its own culture and practices.

    A few of us respond regularly to lazy posters with the 'have you done a search?' question and for most newbies the msg gets through and they play the game. Maybe we could add to that a question about what kind of response they were looking for; if serious feedback then referring to the list of judging criteria I posted a while back.
    Cheers, Ern

  10. #39
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    hah bit of a loaded post Christopha. personally i only really want criticism or improvement suggestions from people where i know their work is better than mine, whose work i admire and whose experience is far greater then mine. That way i have a good chance of improving if i take their advice.

    Other than that a simple, 'hey good job' or 'i like that its fine' gives approval and encouragement and in general helps give people the impetous to do better on the next pics posted. I think most turners here are committed to improving, thats part of the game, other people here always help in that regard.

    the guidlines for this forum seem to be

    "This is a forum for WOODTURNERS both professionals and amateurs alike. Make observations, statements, seek and/or give help and advice,"

    So my interpretation of that is that there is room for general encouragement a s in " yeah good work mate" and room for considered criticsm from experienced turners... as in " maybe you should try a deeper curve on that edge, would give it better form mate "

    One of the things i like about this forum is the frendliness and helpfulness.

    Its only really experienced or professional turners who will be able to offer really viable criticism on the more exact aspects of turning. Otherwise all you might get is unknowledgable personal comment and opinions that may do little to help improve work. Also the techniques of improving work will need to be known and i find this has been ably dealt with by the many professionaly written books avialable by experienced pro turners..

    I think its probably more fruitful to be an example of this than to post about it.

    I have held myself back a few times from saying, "hey that could have a stronger curve mate", just cos i am not a professional or trained turner and i appreciate what anyone post of their work, alos my own work is under constant need of improvement so who am i to critic anyone elses ?

    I think about 80-90% of woodturning in australia is done by amatuers and not for professional sale at all, mean everyone enjoys their turning, seeks to improve and enjoys seeing other turners learning about the craft via the pics here.

    Thats said i think many people post pics of their work hoping to get some constructive response, encouragement serving that purpose.

    Maybe start a thread for constructive criticsm or keep any for those trying to reach a professional level not just trying to enjoy their turnings and share it with others.

    I think Ern is on the right track with a informal list of standards or points to look at when presenting work that could lead to improvement. Also a full thread for it not just endless threads of individuals work, such a thread could called, post pics of yr work for constructive criticsim..

    some points for consideration might be..

    definition of form
    function of item
    aesthetic function of item..
    wood selection appropriate to item shown..
    choice of item , bowl, platter, clock etc
    finish used or techniques used..
    constructive criticism requested
    explanation of techniques used..

    other than that Chris why not lead by example and post some of your work for constructive critcism..?
    "I am brother to dragons, companion to owls"

  11. #40
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    I liked Stirlos a Erns ideas. A sticky has been put at the top of this thread for the express purpose of pictures of work for constructive criticism.

    Read post 1. Good thread Chris. Nearly sent a greenie.

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...405#post596405

  12. #41
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    Personally, I don't see the point in a seperate thread for critiques... all they gotta do is ask and they get one anyway. [shrug] Does this mean that critiques in other turning threads are now off topic?

    And you do realise that it's probably going to be flooded with pen pix, don't you?
    I may be weird, but I'm saving up to become eccentric.

    - Andy Mc

  13. #42
    ss_11000 is offline You've got to risk it to get the biscuit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!! View Post
    And you do realise that it's probably going to be flooded with pen pix, don't you?
    well unless you stuff up there's not alot you can talk about regarding pens IMO...thats why i usually just say NPGJ
    S T I R L O

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!! View Post
    Personally, I don't see the point in a seperate thread for critiques... all they gotta do is ask and they get one anyway. [shrug] Does this mean that critiques in other turning threads are now off topic? I certainly hope not but it leaves an avenue open for those that want to improve their work and get an honest opinion on their work knowing what the ramifications are.

    And you do realise that it's probably going to be flooded with pen pix, don't you? Again I hope not.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!! View Post
    Personally, I don't see the point in a seperate thread for critiques... all they gotta do is ask and they get one anyway.
    I agree with you on that Skew - anytime anyone has asked for critique, it has been given and accepted admirably, providing the critic has qualified themselves and earned the respect of others on the forum - and by 'qualified', I don't mean someone who lists a pile of unsubstantiated credentials in an abusive PM, but rather somebody who gives regular helpful advice, occasionally posts examples of their work and supports the newbs in their endeavors. I don't care how many 'design' courses someone has done, at the end of the day, it just means they have more time and money on their hands than the rest of us. Unfortunately, this thread just looks like someone chasing a license to run other peoples efforts down.
    .
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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    I liked Stirlos a Erns ideas. A sticky has been put at the top of this thread for the express purpose of pictures of work for constructive criticism.

    Read post 1. Good thread Chris. Nearly sent a greenie.

    https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...405#post596405
    Much better than my suggestion, . No ambiguity about what to expect.

    Joe
    Of course truth is stranger than fiction.
    Fiction has to make sense. - Mark Twain

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