Thread: Turning/design efforts

This trend goes beyond just woodturning and into the other woodworking areas too.

Also seems to have hit the jokes forum.

no more posts from me

A fair and valid point. I'm not a woodturner's armpit and I'd never pass judgement on someone else's work from a technical point of view. I've seen some things that I've felt looked pretty ordinary but I have tended to go with "if you can't say anything nice ..." point of view.

I suppose it depends on the reason people are posting their pics. Is it so they can benefit from other people's opinions on what they could have done better, or is it just so they can say "aren't I clever". I admit I usually only post pictures if I think I've done a better than average job on it. I certainly don't post pictures of the failures, although I would arguably benefit more from the latter. If people post negative criticism, I try to take it on board but it does get the hackles up a bit if you think you've done a good job.

Yes a good point. Maybe people should sign off with "all criticism, negative or positive, welcome" or "please don't knock my work, it makes me want to cry".

[Any negative criticism of this post will be met with hostility]

Originally Posted by robyn2839

no more posts from me

WHOA!!! back up, this post was not aimed at individuals, it was not inspired by recent posts in here and Bob, I guess woodturning really is my forte' even though I am a chippy by trade so that is what I am concerned with, OK? My post is not in any way designed to offend or discourage.

It is not a joke either Cliff....

Originally Posted by Christopha

...It is not a joke either Cliff....

I know that, it was merely an observation.

Originally Posted by robyn2839

no more posts from me

So I have to ask why?? Is it that you post your work to get a whole heap of false adulation so you can print it out for the noticeboard at work?

Or was your post a joke?

Chris has made a very good point, and as all the others have said, it is a point that could well be directed across the board.

There's a difference between giving a newcomer incouragement, constructive criticism, and some of the paternalistic accolades that seem to floss on by.

If it's floss you want, as silent says, just mark the thread "no negatives please" or log on as two or three people and write your own rave reviews.

There are a lot of people with a lot to offer, so why not let them?

Well spoken Chris. (and Cliff is right too.)

P

I would agree with Christopha, there have been things put up that looked butt ugly to me that got a lot of praise. Maybe we should think of qualifying it, eg I like the timber, etc if you are trying to be nice. To some extent the only way to get better is to be critical yourself and find the things that you do not like about a piece, putting it up here may be a valid way of extending that but you need to get some real feedback about the piece.

To weigh in,

There are 2 (possibly) separate issues here, in my view.

Firstly is the issue of design and aesthetics. While there are 'rules' which are run out, to a large extent this can be in the eye of the beholder, and a very subjective thing. Observations and comment is probably the best here.

In a different category are the questions of technique, skill, attention to detail, and finish. These are easily evaluated, and IMO not negotiable. This to me is where the soft view is always taken. When I look at or pick up a piece, no matter how good the line, form, timber etc is, I will immediately discount the piece if there is unresolved tearout, sanding marks, a "dimple' or "nipple" in the bottom of a bowl or box, rattling lid, blurred and sanded away detail, or 'orangepeel' crudely sprayed finish, to list just a few of my aversions.
Sadly a large proportion of pieces I have seen displayed fall into this category, no matter how pretty the timber, or seductive the form.

It is however frowned upon to offer any criticism, as not 'politically correct'. If one does, it is either resented, or discounted as not being relevant.

I would like to note that at the Woodturning Club I attended in Durban, in a previous existence, all work submitted was evaluated at meetings in an Instant Gallery. This evaluation was objective, analytical, and sometimes brutal. Certainly the latter wrt issues of technique etc. While led by the MC of the evening, it would include input from all. Design and form also copped it, and while this was more critical of the established turners, newbies also received their share.

It must be noted that criticism was always coupled with advice, assistance and where necessary, help and teaching. What it did ensure, was that no lazy cr#ppy work was trotted out for syncophantic praise. When you had a good piece, and it was well received, you knew you had achieved something. You also learnt!! Locally, I have seen some turners churning out the same shoddy work for 7 years now, without seeing much improvement at all, (with exceptions obviously)

My apologies, did not intend this to turn into a rant, but obviously I feel more strongly about this than I thought.

regards

There are 2 (possibly) separate issues here, in my view.

I agree. I started trying to put that to paper too but you've encapsulated what I would have said.

Originally Posted by Alastair

My apologies, did not intend this to turn into a rant, but obviously I feel more strongly about this than I thought.

Not a rant at all, a valid commentary.

Many, if not most serious design courses subject students to a "critique" of each of their projects, by both their peers and lecturers. It is often surprising to the student to discover that his/her work isn't held in the same light by others, but often robust discussion ensues, so that both the critiquee and criticiser learn in the process.

It is not surprising that we also have so many posts which bemoan the fact that they cannot achieve a reasonable return for their work, when often (but not always) the price is a reflection of the quality, and at the same time, there is often an outcry when an item is offered for a high price. The "I could do that's" come from miles around.

I think there may be a correlation between the two. A lack of constructive criticism can set unrealistic expectation of worth.

Cheers,

P (outranting Alastair)

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

A lack of constructive criticism can set unrealistic expectation of worth.

Cheers,

P (outranting Alastair)

Please, if that was a rant or two then keep 'em coming!

I don't care if we end up with umpteen questions here as long as we can encourage our fellow turners to aspire to do better and as far as I am concerned we ALL can do better.... There has been work posted on here that has made me drool with envy and there has been work posted that has made me feel embarrassed that the poor turner posting it has thought it at all acceptable.
If we can have decent, constructive critiques of work then surely it will benefit all and if someone posts something that needs just that then the poster should receive accolades for their 'courage' and and desire to improve.

Maybe two threads/fora?

One titled "I'm really proud of this!"
and the other "Critique wanted" ?

Cheers,
Andrew

On another forum that I visit (also uses VBulletin), the moderators have posted a sticky with a title something like "Critique documents." It advises those who post work to include a phrase such as "Critiques welcome" to solicit criticism. Absent such a phrase, the sweet talk there could rot your teeth.

Stickies don't show up under "New Posts" of course, but most new members would likely visit individual forums for a while before utilizing "New Posts" or "Ispy," and such a sticky would be highlighted on their first visit after joining. (I think.)

Joe