Thread: Finial Design

I just spend ten fifteen seconds reading your thread expecting to see well something ugly.
Proportion all over the place ext ext.
Get off here and back out there the shed I mean.
That is a very nice .
Ok just because you asked ,thin it down towards the top ,if you must but I still think it's very nice just the way it is.
My first turnings looked more like something you would apparently find in a sex shop well that's what my wife and her friends told me anyway (new product range arriving next year).
Matt

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I just spend ten fifteen seconds reading your thread expecting to see well something ugly.
Proportion all over the place ext ext.
Get off here and back out there the shed I mean.
That is a very nice .
Ok just because you asked ,thin it down towards the top ,if you must but I still think it's very nice just the way it is.
My first turnings looked more like something you would apparently find in a sex shop well that's what my wife and her friends told me anyway (new product range arriving next year).
Matt

Thanks for the feedback and tip, Matt. You're definitely right - it looked thinner as I was (nervously) turning it, but I just measured it - 5mm immediately below the flying saucer. Could have been a couple of mm thinner. I think the diameter of the flying saucer is a bit large, too. The bulb was easy - I just copied what everyone else does, (see the new signature), and the shape was already in my head from the bud vase I made the other day.

Note: I don't even know what to call the various elements of a finial. What's the 'proper' name for the flying saucer shape? Is there possibly an online glossary of finial terms?

I've got another blank ready, and enough of this nice Hickory to have a few more goes, so I'll try a couple more tomorrow, hopefully after a bit more advice from those of you who know what they're doing.
(My idea of an idyllic Xmas day. )

Ok ,so you know the terms and we can converse effectively .
From the bottom up
.The bit on the bottom.
The thin bit.
The fat bit .
The getting slimmer bit.
Stretched neck thing .
ET ship home.
Another thin bit.
Small thinginggg do.
Pointy bit .

A lot of finials are personal taste, but needs to be also appropriate for what ever it sits on, proportions etc. Generally they are "delicate" and yours looks too chunky for me. Check out Cindy Drozda's site http://www.cindydrozda.com/ for what I consider beautiful

Originally Posted by dai sensei

A lot of finials are personal taste, but needs to be also appropriate for what ever it sits on, proportions etc. Generally they are "delicate" and yours looks too chunky for me. Check out Cindy Drozda's site http://www.cindydrozda.com/ for what I consider beautiful

Wow, I do have a long way to go. They look fantastic.
I've been looking at the wrong finials. So much for Google images.

I looked at Cindy's, looked at mine, looked at Cindy's again, then threw mine in the bin.

I'll still have another go tomorrow, but I'm not even sure I can see well enough to work that fine.

Generally good overall design. I find the bottom section a bit fat, otherwise OK.

Originally Posted by artme

Generally good overall design. I find the bottom section a bit fat, otherwise OK.

Thanks Arthur. I'll aim for thinner overall tomorrow. I think it would have looked better with a sharper transition between the bottom of the 'ET ship home' and the top of 'The getting slimmer bit', too.

I got some other ideas from looking at Cindy Drozda's work, as well. I'll see if I can incorporate some of her elements, without directly copying her stuff.

Neil's point about the finial suiting it's target is something I need to consider, too. I'll draw a couple of box shapes tonight, with finials to suit, but I'll only actually make the finials.

I'm learning already.

Well you got away with this one, but remember it must not look the same as anyone else has made. Thin ice.

Hi Hermit,
I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I have basically 2 objectives when turning a finial;

1. The finial is an adornment to the main subject - it draws attention (the viewers attention) to the main object, box, lid, etc.

2. I like my finials to flow from top to bottom - getting broader as it descends from tip to the base. Each transition should lead to a larger section

Rules 1 & 2 are mandatory except when they do not meet rule 3:

3. It must look right - too thin is as bad as too thick. What is right on one subject may be totally inappropriate on another.

My advice: study what the "best" are doing and then start with one or two basic shapes and start exploring and developing a broard design that you like. From there you can progress to adapting your design to suit each project. Expect to turn many finials - I will often re-turn a finial changing proportions - physically re-turning the original making coves thinner or balls smaller, etc and often deleting transitions. I rarely keep my practice finials. I found that was re-inforcing one design and inhiberted exploration of new or different designs. My practice sessions now are more focussed on relating design to suit the article and not so much on the physical turning which is really only beads, coves balls and transisions.

Your last post "..I'll draw a couple of box shapes tonight, with finials to suit, but I'll only actually make the finials." suggests to me that you are on the right track.


Rule 4 is now becoming clearer for me:

Less is best or KISS (keep it simple stupid). My first attempts were too complicated and distracted from the true purpose of adorning and drawing attention to the prinicipal object - they were tending to be the main point of interest.

I don't see anyone better than Cindy Drozda from whom to learn what good finials should look like and how they relate to the subject. She sets the standard for us mere mortals to seek to achieve.

Looking forward to seeing your 100th finial

Bob

Originally Posted by Hermit

Wow, I do have a long way to go. They look fantastic.
I've been looking at the wrong finials. So much for Google images.

I looked at Cindy's, looked at mine, looked at Cindy's again, then threw mine in the bin.

I'll still have another go tomorrow, but I'm not even sure I can see well enough to work that fine.

Shouldn't have ditched it.
another 15 and you had a set of pawns for a chess set.

if its only for look, no touch, sure go for the skinny ones (or entering a contest).
If its going on something that will be used and you don't want it to break when it falls off the bench, go fatter.
No Rules, if it looks good thats it.
I have one here that doesn't look good, Its on top of my ugly thing (and that's not a body part).
So its all ugly.

Pete

I knew I had this link somewhere - just had to find it.

The complete mathematics to designing your finial according to Cindy and the Golden Ratio

http://www.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/T...lProport1.html

Bob

Go get it out the bin! It's good to see how you progress with design and technique! I have some of my first turnings from 1990s
some are blocks of practice beads and they are not really beads they are pointy skew run messes!
When people come over I often show them the difference between then and now with all the practice in between!

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

Hi Hermit,
I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I have basically 2 objectives when turning a finial;

1. The finial is an adornment to the main subject - it draws attention (the viewers attention) to the main object, box, lid, etc.

2. I like my finials to flow from top to bottom - getting broader as it descends from tip to the base. Each transition should lead to a larger section

Rules 1 & 2 are mandatory except when they do not meet rule 3:

3. It must look right - too thin is as bad as too thick. What is right on one subject may be totally inappropriate on another.

My advice: study what the "best" are doing and then start with one or two basic shapes and start exploring and developing a broard design that you like. From there you can progress to adapting your design to suit each project. Expect to turn many finials - I will often re-turn a finial changing proportions - physically re-turning the original making coves thinner or balls smaller, etc and often deleting transitions. I rarely keep my practice finials. I found that was re-inforcing one design and inhiberted exploration of new or different designs. My practice sessions now are more focussed on relating design to suit the article and not so much on the physical turning which is really only beads, coves balls and transisions.

Your last post "..I'll draw a couple of box shapes tonight, with finials to suit, but I'll only actually make the finials." suggests to me that you are on the right track.


Rule 4 is now becoming clearer for me:

Less is best or KISS (keep it simple stupid). My first attempts were too complicated and distracted from the true purpose of adorning and drawing attention to the prinicipal object - they were tending to be the main point of interest.

I don't see anyone better than Cindy Drozda from whom to learn what good finials should look like and how they relate to the subject. She sets the standard for us mere mortals to seek to achieve.

Looking forward to seeing your 100th finial

Bob

Great advice, Bob, and thank you very much for the link to Cindy's info on proportions.
That's exactly what I was looking for. I knew there had to be basic design rules.
The linked pdf handout, with examples and illustrations is pretty useful too. Needless to say, I've kept copies of both.

Phil -


Pete and Charlie, I had to throw it out. No thought or planning went into that one. I'll keep the first one that I've actually planned, if it doesn't look too terrible.


I'm not really all that keen on finials on a lot of things, but figured it was the best way to get some good solid practice with my new spindle gouge. I've only used it three times. I should have bought one long ago.
I'll have to make some more boxes now, for all of the coming finials.


And, for those that are into it, have a Merry Xmas.

Originally Posted by Oldgreybeard

Hi Hermit,
I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I have basically 2 objectives when turning a finial;

1. The finial is an adornment to the main subject - it draws attention (the viewers attention) to the main object, box, lid, etc.

2. I like my finials to flow from top to bottom - getting broader as it descends from tip to the base. Each transition should lead to a larger section

Rules 1 & 2 are mandatory except when they do not meet rule 3:

3. It must look right - too thin is as bad as too thick. What is right on one subject may be totally inappropriate on another.

My advice: study what the "best" are doing and then start with one or two basic shapes and start exploring and developing a broard design that you like. From there you can progress to adapting your design to suit each project. Expect to turn many finials - I will often re-turn a finial changing proportions - physically re-turning the original making coves thinner or balls smaller, etc and often deleting transitions. I rarely keep my practice finials. I found that was re-inforcing one design and inhiberted exploration of new or different designs. My practice sessions now are more focussed on relating design to suit the article and not so much on the physical turning which is really only beads, coves balls and transisions.

Your last post "..I'll draw a couple of box shapes tonight, with finials to suit, but I'll only actually make the finials." suggests to me that you are on the right track.


Rule 4 is now becoming clearer for me:

Less is best or KISS (keep it simple stupid). My first attempts were too complicated and distracted from the true purpose of adorning and drawing attention to the prinicipal object - they were tending to be the main point of interest.

I don't see anyone better than Cindy Drozda from whom to learn what good finials should look like and how they relate to the subject. She sets the standard for us mere mortals to seek to achieve.

Looking forward to seeing your 100th finial

Bob

Bugger. I just typed a big reply, and lost the lot. Auto-restore didn't work either. I'll see if I can remember what I said.


Thank you very much for the great advice, Bob, and the link to Cindy Drozda's info on proportions. That page also links to a very helpful pdf with plenty of examples and illustrations. Good stuff.
(That Golden Ratio keeps rearing it's ugly head. I struck it in box-making as well.)


Phil -


Pete and Charlie, I had to throw out that first one. I didn't put any thought into it, and only made it to see if I was capable of turning on that scale with my limited skills.


All said and done, I don't really like finials on a lot of things, but figured it was the best way to get in some badly-needed spindle turning practice. It's only the third time I've used my new spindle gouge. Should have bought one ages ago.
Just wait until my skew arrives.
(I've got a cheap Chinese carbon-steel skew, but it's rubbish so I don't use it.)

Now I'll have to make some more boxes.....


And, a Merry Xmas to all.