Thread: Help me buy my dad a lathe?

Originally Posted by DaveTTC

Have you checked thread direction. Is it reverse thread?

Dave TTC
Turning Wood Into Art

Yep, it's a LH/reverse thread. This is also the thread he ordered for the chuck (sorry, forgot to note that).

My only other note is that the first spiral of the thread (perhaps spiral-and-a-half) is very slightly rounded from wear (it came with a large face plate for it).

However, I wonder how much of an influence this slightly rounding would have if the pitch/diameter is actually correct. It comes to a very hard stop when trying to thread it on...

Can you post a picture of the thread on the lathe plus, maybe, a picture of the internal thread on the chuck?

this site has a printable pitch chart so you can match it against the internal and external threads to see if they are the same pitch

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-i...read-Sizes.pdf

Originally Posted by Lappa

Can you post a picture of the thread on the lathe plus, maybe, a picture of the internal thread on the chuck?

this site has a printable pitch chart so you can match it against the internal and external threads to see if they are the same pitch

https://www.boltdepot.com/fastener-i...read-Sizes.pdf

Absolutely. I don't have my "real" cameras with me (as I'm just visiting them for a brief hello, as my mum is recovering from surgery), but will do so shortly.

Here we go...

https://s3.postimg.org/7vo7ybvyb/201...101509_338.jpg

https://s21.postimg.org/kdvzuwt5z/20...102136_337.jpg

David,

If the face plate fits nicely on the outboard end of the spindle, send it and the chuck back to Axminster and have them make it the same. If the chuck has an insert, rather than the chuck being bored and threaded, you may want to have an insert for the inboard side also so the chuck can be used on both sides.

https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=102&virtuemart_category_id=14

It is also possible to have an insert made that will work on both left and right hand threads if the diameter is the same. The 1 1/4 inch insert for my Oneway chuck for the Woodfast came that way. Very Strange looking threads.

Also keep in mind that the chuck position or register is held by the unthreaded part of the spindle behind the threads and the the flat that the end of the chuck bears against on the spindle. The threads just hold the face plate or chuck on the spindle.

Cleaning the rust off those with steel wool and some light oil will help everything seat correctly.

Originally Posted by Paul39

David,

If the face plate fits nicely on the outboard end of the spindle, send it and the chuck back to Axminster and have them make it the same. If the chuck has an insert, rather than the chuck being bored and threaded, you may want to have an insert for the inboard side also so the chuck can be used on both sides.

https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=102&virtuemart_category_id=14

It is also possible to have an insert made that will work on both left and right hand threads if the diameter is the same. The 1 1/4 inch insert for my Oneway chuck for the Woodfast came that way. Very Strange looking threads.

Also keep in mind that the chuck position or register is held by the unthreaded part of the spindle behind the threads and the the flat that the end of the chuck bears against on the spindle. The threads just hold the face plate or chuck on the spindle.

Cleaning the rust off those with steel wool and some light oil will help everything seat correctly.

Thanks Paul. I really like your idea as it's so simple. I'm gonna give Axminster a call tomorrow and see what they say - I'm sure they'll be happy to help, as they always are.

Will hopefully update you with some photos of a large platter

So Axminster were very accommodating as expected but unfortunately due to expansion in the workshop creating a backlog, they wouldn't be able to have it done until the new year.

Which is perfectly reasonable and they are going beyond expectations to help us with this. But for my Dad, who waited a while to have it made in the first place, I fear he may make more grumpy noises if I tell him this...

I think for starters, the chuck will have to go back, because it's not usable.

But where to begin with getting a thread to match the face plate of this outbound thread?

Do I start trying to contact independent workshops? With a blank / unthreaded faceplate ? Ask them to cut the thread?

Is that something that would be very time consuming / costly to ask an individual to do?

Random thought: is it possible the thread is a different form such as BSW? But surely it would still thread on (and damage the thread) rather than just not starting at all & coming to a hard stop?

You might check with Tony at Lathes to confirm just what thread is on the lathe.

Wadkin BZL Wood lathe

This talks about the inboard spindle thread:

Does anybody know the Thread size of a Wadkin bzl lathe? : Wood Turning - Lathes - UKworkshop.co.uk

This about the inboard, and outboard:

https://forum.canadianwoodworking.co...dkin-bzl-lathe

Just to further muddy the waters, the lathe might possibly have been made for use in Europe and have metric threads.

You could go to a place that sells large nuts and ask for one that is specified for the inboard right hand thread and see if it will fit on the spindle. If it does, it is likely that the outboard spindle will be what is specified.

Robert Sorby makes chucks, you might check with them to see if they have an insert for the Wadkin:

Chucks

I find this about Axminster chucks:

http://knowledge.axminster.co.uk/buy...072.1477414966

As your dad has a face plate, he can make things using that until the chuck is sorted. Patience, patience.

It WILL be worth the wait once it is all sorted. My own journey took years and several lathes. I still don't have a
Wadkin or Oliver, and am not likely to. I do have a 20 inch swing short bed Woodfast, which is very close.

Further looking finds Oneway adapters for the Stronghold chuck. https://oneway.ca/products-category/...ghold-Adaptors

I have two Stronghold chucks. They are good solid chucks and run true.

Here is Vicmarc's list of adapters:

https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option...category_id=14

I realize Axminster has been very cooperative getting you a chuck, but it seems they drill and bore each chuck to fit a spindle.

As the Wadkin seems to have a different thread on the inboard and outboard of the spindle that means two Axminster chucks if you want to work both sides.

A Oneway or Vicmarc chuck uses an adapter so you could use the same chuck on either side with only the expense of the adapter. Changing the adapter is a bit more fiddly than screwing the chuck on to the spindle, but with some planning that can be worked out. Week one we work inboard, week two we work outboard, week three in, week four out, etc.

One of my used lathes came with a Oneway chuck and the Oneway tail center kit. I was pleased with how well everything worked and how nicely built and finished.

When I wanted a big chuck for the Woodfast I consulted with a professional turner at a wood show, who said the best chuck was
Vicmarc, followed by the Oneway. As the Oneway was cheaper and made by our neighbors to the north, I bought a new Oneway Stronghold with big jaws and an 1 1/4 - 8 adapter. Later I bought a like new used one for $100 and bought a 33mm metric adapter for the Hegner.

Originally Posted by Paul39

You might check with Tony at Lathes to confirm just what thread is on the lathe.

Wadkin BZL Wood lathe

This talks about the inboard spindle thread:

Does anybody know the Thread size of a Wadkin bzl lathe? : Wood Turning - Lathes - UKworkshop.co.uk

This about the inboard, and outboard:

https://forum.canadianwoodworking.co...dkin-bzl-lathe

Just to further muddy the waters, the lathe might possibly have been made for use in Europe and have metric threads.

You could go to a place that sells large nuts and ask for one that is specified for the inboard right hand thread and see if it will fit on the spindle. If it does, it is likely that the outboard spindle will be what is specified.

Robert Sorby makes chucks, you might check with them to see if they have an insert for the Wadkin:

Chucks

I find this about Axminster chucks:

http://knowledge.axminster.co.uk/buy...072.1477414966

As your dad has a face plate, he can make things using that until the chuck is sorted. Patience, patience.

It WILL be worth the wait once it is all sorted. My own journey took years and several lathes. I still don't have a
Wadkin or Oliver, and am not likely to. I do have a 20 inch swing short bed Woodfast, which is very close.

Thanks for your insight and research. I hadn't managed to find that inbound/outbound discussion on the Canadian forum - which seems to point to it being 1" x 8 as we'd measured. Or at least THAT one is. I hadn't found any info about exporting, but I always assumed with the Wadkin Bursgreen being made in Leicester it was purely used within the UK - so the threads would be the same. Maybe there are some differences out there though...

I have a lot of patience and my Dad is generally a patient person. But he has had quite a few things 'going on' lately, so he doesn't seem to be able to process this too well and is blowing it up to more than it is (simply getting a thread and setup that works). It's just a thread - not 'rocket science'. He keeps mentioning removing the spindle completely, or even buying an entirely new lathe - yet both are pretty ridiculous and far more time consuming (and if I could say, a little hurtful, given that this machine is a gift...)

I'm going to look into the Robert Sorby chucks, thanks for the note. I think your idea of finding multiple nuts is nice and quick/easy too.

Originally Posted by Paul39

Further looking finds Oneway adapters for the Stronghold chuck. https://oneway.ca/products-category/...ghold-Adaptors

I have two Stronghold chucks. They are good solid chucks and run true.

Here is Vicmarc's list of adapters:

https://vicmarc.com/index.php?option...category_id=14

I realize Axminster has been very cooperative getting you a chuck, but it seems they drill and bore each chuck to fit a spindle.

As the Wadkin seems to have a different thread on the inboard and outboard of the spindle that means two Axminster chucks if you want to work both sides.

A Oneway or Vicmarc chuck uses an adapter so you could use the same chuck on either side with only the expense of the adapter. Changing the adapter is a bit more fiddly than screwing the chuck on to the spindle, but with some planning that can be worked out. Week one we work inboard, week two we work outboard, week three in, week four out, etc.

One of my used lathes came with a Oneway chuck and the Oneway tail center kit. I was pleased with how well everything worked and how nicely built and finished.

When I wanted a big chuck for the Woodfast I consulted with a professional turner at a wood show, who said the best chuck was
Vicmarc, followed by the Oneway. As the Oneway was cheaper and made by our neighbors to the north, I bought a new Oneway Stronghold with big jaws and an 1 1/4 - 8 adapter. Later I bought a like new used one for $100 and bought a 33mm metric adapter for the Hegner.

Yep, it seems the Chuck will have to go back as it's bored out specifically for that thread, so no use it being here (and returning for a refund makes sense).

Making the inbound and outbound threads the same makes perfect sense to me and is exactly what I would have done if I were setting it up. But I pretty much left it to my Dad to explore himself and make his own once he had it. I'll discuss this as a further option. The thing is he does have a chuck for the inbound side with quite a few accessories to fit it, so it may not appeal to him to start again on it, but it's another option at least.

Originally Posted by Paul39

As your dad has a face plate, he can make things using that until the chuck is sorted. Patience, patience.

He basically just wants to try something larger, like a platter. I think he can get 18-20" on the outbound without any modification. He has that large faceplate but I think in his mind (and I haven't done any turning so I don't know), he can't do much with just a faceplate?

He seems to think he can turn ONE size (say, underneath the bowl), where he'd need to make a dovetail foot to then fit onto this mysterious chuck ?

Is there a way to ONLY use a faceplate for the entire job on something this large?

I have found this - which shows gluing a sacrificial board to the one size "no chuck bowl": No Chuck Bowl

Could this be applied to a 18" platter ? Or is there another way?

Or possibly something like this... could something like this be suitable for holding the "foot" size of a bowl? Or would it be too weak? I just feel like there has to be some jig type solution you can make yourself... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2y8omkU3Ug

Another random thought.... could this back plate on the chuck be taken off, counter sunk on the other side, and then bolted onto the faceplate? http://static.axminster.co.uk/media/..._inset8_xl.jpg

Big bowl with faceplate:

A Very Big Bowl | Allan Shope Architect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmlE4C1HRGs

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...95b4c082a6.jpg

ERROR: The requested URL could not be retrieved

Big turnings screwed to a faceplate is the preferred method, as that holds much better than being gripped in a chuck. All the big ones above are done with one mounting. Either there is enough timber left at the bottom to cut off when finishing, or in the last one, Ed Moulthrop drills out the screw holes and drives in a dowel then finishes the bottom.

For big flat pieces some folks glue a mounting block with brown grocery bag paper between, then use a chisel to break the block off. Others glue directly then chisel and sand the bottom.

Older turning books have many techniques that do not involve chucks. The 1970ish version of this is full of information:

https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-Woo.../dp/1861080751

As your father has a chuck for the inboard, getting an Axminster chuck to fit the outboard solves the problem. As you have started with them, getting the chuck from them may be the least messy. Carefully measuring the outboard spindle in accordance with the drawing on their chuck page is necessary. If you or your father are not confident about measuring, you might find what we call a machinist - I think you folks call them an engineer - to do the measuring.

Originally Posted by Paul39

Big bowl with faceplate:

A Very Big Bowl | Allan Shope Architect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmlE4C1HRGs

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...95b4c082a6.jpg

ERROR: The requested URL could not be retrieved

Big turnings screwed to a faceplate is the preferred method, as that holds much better than being gripped in a chuck. All the big ones above are done with one mounting. Either there is enough timber left at the bottom to cut off when finishing, or in the last one, Ed Moulthrop drills out the screw holes and drives in a dowel then finishes the bottom.

For big flat pieces some folks glue a mounting block with brown grocery bag paper between, then use a chisel to break the block off. Others glue directly then chisel and sand the bottom.

Older turning books have many techniques that do not involve chucks. The 1970ish version of this is full of information:

https://www.amazon.com/Craftsman-Woo.../dp/1861080751

As your father has a chuck for the inboard, getting an Axminster chuck to fit the outboard solves the problem. As you have started with them, getting the chuck from them may be the least messy. Carefully measuring the outboard spindle in accordance with the drawing on their chuck page is necessary. If you or your father are not confident about measuring, you might find what we call a machinist - I think you folks call them an engineer - to do the measuring.

Wow, that is amazing, thank you Paul. I agree re: simplicity and keeping it with Axminster, but it's still useful to have the other options for when I discuss it with him in a couple of days.

RE: large turnings screwed to a faceplate... is that secure enough without a tailstock? Assuming you cut it reasonably round on a bandsaw (or similar), and use enough screws.

If so, that is amazing, to think he could actually just start using it today.