Thread: Ignorant newbie

As it happened, I visited my local Carbatec yesterday, unrelated to this thread, I was checking out one of their lathes for a friend who lives in the sticks and coming to Melbourne is usually for when he really needs to visit.

The lathe in question is similar to what other suppliers in this country have, but with minor differences. Whether or not they come from the same factory is a moot point because as far as I can tell, their similarity is quite obvious and it is like this because of like an automobile, you need 4 wheels in each corner.......

It has a magnetic control box, which means you can place it in many places on the machine allowing you to turn the lathe on and off without needing to be in the line of fire; this feature to me is a really good point.

The headstock on this particular lathe slides and swivels, which is a bit rare. Most will either slide, or swivel, but not do both.

Swivel the headstock on this lathe and you will find two stops, this is good, or at least useful for turning something that is just that slightly too big to be turned over the lathe bed. By doing just the 45º halfway stop you are not quite leaning over and things in general are great. For even bigger stuff you can swivel the headstock 90º and face directly into a bowl; for instance. Unfortunately you don't get any bowl turning extensions with this lathe or have it as an accessory for you to purchase.

The swivelling headstock turned up a surprise, one that I'm not entirely sure I've seen before. When you need to swivel the headstock, you use the supplied lever to undo or release the headstock from the locked position by undoing/tightening the long steel bolt, this is similar to the Nova lathe I previously owned. The issue is that the bolt which you loosen or tighten, gets in the way of the banjo, which is the part of a lathe that slides along the lathe bed and is locked with a lever into the required position. This banjo holds the tool post/tool rest in the right position for you.

With the headstock at 45º, the banjo is a bit restricted in where it can be placed to allow you to turn a bowl at that angle. Once you turn the headstock to 90º the only way I envisaged being able to use a 90º headstock placement for bowl turning, was to slide the headstock somewhat down the bed, swivel it 90º, slide the banjo completely off the lathe bed and slide it onto the left side of the headstock. This should allow you to turn a bowl of reasonable size, but depth of bowl will be restricted by the fact there is no tool rest extension available from the supplier. Possibly a generic one would suffice.

The last point, is the spindle thread. In Australia on large(ish) lathes, the most common spindle thread is M30 x 3.5mm thread. This lathe uses a 1¼" x 8 TPI spindle thread. This is reasonably common and my previous lathe had this size. Fortunately for me I purchased my first chuck with a changeable insert so I could use it on any spindle thread size.

These things I've pointed out are just designed to give you an idea of what someone with a small amount of wood turning would be looking out for as either advantageous or not for them, whereas someone with little to no knowledge of wood turning may gain some insight of what people who have used various lathes look for.

At 45º This pretty much as good as it gets with regard to tool rest position.

Lathe_Review_001_IMG_20231219_121710.jpg


Banjo being blocked by lock/unlock bolt, which does restrict where and/or how close you can adjust the tool rest to your work.

Lathe_Review_002_IMG_20231219_121734.jpg


Slide to the middle, lock the headstock, turn 90º. Slide the tailstock off, slide the banjo off. Then, slide the banjo onto the left side of the headstock and turn your bowl. Slightly unconventional, but eminently doable. The other option is to fabricate your own tripod type stand to hold your tool post anywhere on the floor and use either a 90º turned headstock, or slide the headstock right to the tailstock end and you turn from there.


Lathe_Review_003_IMG_20231219_121932.jpg

There is provision for a bed extension, but it is not available for this machine; which I think is a shame as a bed extension really adds potential for spindle turning of things longer than a coffee table leg. Holes for adding a bed extension are on either end of the lathe, as is a lower set of bed extension holes on the tailstock end. The lower set of holes would allow the bed extension to be used and allow for a much larger swing if the headstock was placed at the tailstock end of the bed.

Mick.

Originally Posted by NeilS

....



I began that thread. You are welcome to take that spreadsheet and do the same for the available mini and midi lathes. That might also help you to decide which one will be best for you and your budget.

I've created a less detailed spreadsheet (so far), but I'm stumped by an anomaly with a couple of the Sherwoods.


https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood...AaAn8VEALw_wcB

https://www.timbecon.com.au/sherwood...he-350mm-swing

What is the difference? Apart from $480 (based on December sale price). Same size. One is titled as EVS but the specs and features for both describe both as EVS. One is an induction motor, the other just described as a DC motor. Is that difference worth that much money?

My Men's Shed has the cheaper unit with the bed extension, running on their two combined stands. Actually, our unit has been superseded with this unit.

We also have the other unit but in another brand, without the bed extension.

Both are smallish and to be honest the cheaper unit struggles when pretty much anything decent is thrown on it. That said, one of our members swears by that unit and produces some pretty good stuff.

The more expensive unit runs a lower minimum speed, which on these lathes is not quite as important as it is on lathes that can hold much larger and therefore greater unbalanced timber. But that lower minimum running speed of the more expensive unit is better. Apart from the one person who swears by the cheaper unit, almost everyone, including myself, prefers the induction unit; it just does things slightly better and does have ever so slightly more grunt.

They are an entry level lathe with reasonable quality, and should give you a good safe, reasonably priced learning curve.

Both of them run with M30 x 3.5 TPI spindle thread, which is pretty much what the majority of larger lathes in this country run with. This means that if you are running accessories with this thread, chucks, face plates and that sort of thing. If you upgrade to a larger lathe, it is pretty much assured you can take all of your accessories and use them seamlessly between the two until you offload your smaller lathe. That said, quite a few people keep their first very small lathe as they can be a very useful thing to have hanging around. Space permitting, that is.

If you decide to purchase either of these, I would suggest you think about getting the bed extension when you purchase. A bed extension certainly helps with long spindle work and I know from our Men's Shed purchase, trying to purchase a bed extension for your lathe once it has been superseded, is nearly impossible. Actually is impossible.

These can very easily be mounted onto a simple wooden bench, which would be my preference. Ours, in my Men's Shed, are on the Timbecon stands, and are a bit on the wobbly side, they are alright, but......

Mick.

Thinking about where you are currently heading in your lathe endeavours, I would suggest the Hare and Forbes mini lathe could be a more suitable entry level lathe to get your feet wet. It is certainly a lot cheaper.

If you click on the pictures and go to the last picture, it is a very short video of a Men's Shed doing a very quick demo.

Just a moment...

Mick.

Originally Posted by Optimark

Thinking about where you are currently heading in your lathe endeavours, I would suggest the Hare and Forbes mini lathe could be a more suitable entry level lathe to get your feet wet. It is certainly a lot cheaper.

If you click on the pictures and go to the last picture, it is a very short video of a Men's Shed doing a very quick demo.

Just a moment...

Mick.

Hmmmmm yes, yes, does look like a good place to start. Am I right in thinking the EVS on this unit is better than their other Variable Speed units? Looking at the WL20 for instance (or possibly the version of that with the extra toys).... Are those other variable speeds achieved with a Reeves Drive?

All of these small new machines are running EVS Electronic Variable Speed.

A Reeves drive is a mechanical speed variant type of machine. Basically a belt is moved between two spinning metal plates, as it is moved towards the centre of these two spinning discs, the speed slows down. When you move the lever and push the belt towards the outside of the two metal spinning plates, the speed of the lathe gets faster.

Unless you buy second hand and very cheaply, I would not suggest getting anything with a Reeves drive system. They work, they will do the job, but anything without an EVS speed controller system is just a little frustrating, especially if you even only once use a lathe fitted with an EVS system.

The cheapest mini lathes don't have any variable speeds, other than having belt changes for different speeds, mostly there will be three speeds, slow, medium and fast. The cheapest, I seem to remember, used to be the little Carbatec one, they go forever and most of them are probably still going well.

My first major lathe had 8 speeds (I think) it was a Nova and to change the spinning speed I needed to stop, undo the cover, change the belt over to another pair of pulleys close up then continue on. Nothing basically wrong, but it was extremely frustrating as when I visited my brother I watched in envy as he just dialled the speed up or down, sometimes only by 25-50 rpm or so.

Mick.

Chucks are something you will be turning your attention too, once you've pulled the trigger on a lathe purchase. At least I'm assuming you will be thinking of chucks.

I've had a few brands of chucks and eventually settled on the Vicmarc brand. My reasons mainly were because it is a chuck/jaw system that seemed to tick all of the boxes. Firstly, they aren't the cheapest chuck on the block, which I ascribe two main reasons why. They are manufactured in Qld, and they have been bullet proof for my requirements and many professional turners around the world, which implies that they are well made and designed. Well made and designed, usually costs.

The bonus of the Vicmarc chucks, is their range of jaw sets, which are really extensive and should enable you to hold almost anything that you wish to turn. The chucks come in two main sizes, 100mm and 120mm. The 100mm is the biggest you would normally use on a small lathe.

Almost everyone, myself included, purchases their smaller VM100 chuck and standard jaws. My suggestion is to purchase the VM100 M30 x 3.5mm No jaws chuck. Part No. V00282-1. This is the cheapest way to purchase their chuck and will screw directly onto your lathe spindle.

Instead of purchasing a set of standard jaws, I suggest you think about purchasing a standard Shark Jaws set of jaws. Part No. V00653.

Then add one face plate ring. Faceplate ring 70mm Part No. V00400. Best and designed for the standard Jaw set and the standard Shark Jaw set used in expansion mode.

By purchasing the smallest Shark Jaw set, you have more possibilities over the standard Jaw set. Being longer you can grip and hold end grain material far better than the much smaller standard Jaw set. Basically since I purchased my Shark Jaws for my VM100 chuck, I have hardly used the standard Jaw set as the Shark Jaws are so much more versatile.

The cost will be about the same as a chuck and standard Jaw set, give or take.

Below is one of my VM100 chucks with my Shark Jaws, alongside on the table is a standard Jaw set as well as the smallest faceplate ring. Upside down is another VM100 chuck, fitted with an adaptor, you can see how much it sticks out. The third chuck is my VM120 chuck, which is direct thread to my spindle.

Some more food for thought on your (probably) overloaded mind.

Mick.



Chucks_And_Jaws_IMG_20231227_143952.jpg

I'm about to hit the Go button on the Hafco WL14V (Just a moment...). This has the advantage of being immediately affordable, including shipping. I know I will need to get a decent chuck, but I'm going to spend the rest of the cash currently in my pocket on some chisels... probably the Hafco WT-8 (Just a moment...). I'll need to save some more for a chuck (or 3), and no doubt more tools etc etc etc etc, but I think I'd rather be able to create some sawdust using the standard faceplate, rather than being able to spin stuff beautifully on a really nice chuck without being able to put a dent in it.

Thank you all for your input! No doubt I'll be back shortly with a multitude of other stupid questions

Actually before I do that, should I go for the WT-8 or the WT-6 on the same site? <insert David Bowie's Absolute Beginners here>

Originally Posted by Rombles

Actually before I do that, should I go for the WT-8 or the WT-6 on the same site? <insert David Bowie's Absolute Beginners here>

Get the WT-6. IMO, it has a more useful set of tools

The WT-8 has to many of doubling up of the same tool in different sizes that you don't need to begin with, but it doesn't have a bowl gouge.

PS - the roughing gouge is for spindle work, not bowl/cross grain turning.

Originally Posted by NeilS

Get the WT-6. IMO, it has a more useful set of tools

The WT-8 has to many of doubling up of the same tool in different sizes that you don't need to begin with, but it doesn't have a bowl gouge.

PS - the roughing gouge is for spindle work, not bowl/cross grain turning.

Thank you sir, order changed and sent!