Thread: Optimal woodturning handle

Originally Posted by Phily

Dam, I thought I had the only signed copy!!!

Lol!!

Originally Posted by Kuffy

I am surprised no one suggested that the handles should be different from tool to tool so that your hands are gripping differently throughout the day instead of being locked in the one position. Saves on the cramping by using a slightly different grip every few minutes when you change from skew to gouge to parting and back to skew etc. I guess this would only apply to the production turners that actually do it all day every day. FWIW, I like the big fat chunky handle on my P&N bowl gouge because my wrists are fubar (ulnar nerve) from being a professional pickerupperer and putbackdowner for too long and I really hate gripping skinny things tightly. a fat handle has more surface area in contact with my hand so I can stay in control without using a white knuckle bear grip.

Good point, the cramping often has a medical reason for turning up. The lack of fluids ie water this is a very common reason for cramping.

https://www.nia.nih.gov/health/publi...ur-plate/water
https://www.nestlenutrition-institut...ight_pages.pdf

The white knuckle grip is a very hard habit to conquer and some never do. I think much of its is how we think and the perhaps confidence, either way it aint easy to break a life time habit.

As to the ergonomics of handle design it has come to the fore with other crafts and professions more so than ever.

http://ergonomics.uq.edu.au/eaol/handle.pdf
https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/ergo...ooldesign.html
http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/studen...nd%20Tools.pdf
and
https://paulsellers.com/2014/12/chan...hisel-handles/

But much of what we see is traditional or atleast greatly influenced by tradition and if your starting out your experience level will be minimal and so tradition becomes the norm, add to that our resistance to change etc .
But by the look of it there are several hundred years of experience here behind the answers here, so thats good . But I would doubt one size fits all, as well as what ever medical conditions are effecting the body at any one time. As mate of mine once said 'if I woke up pain free I would probably be dead' .

Originally Posted by Kuffy

I like the big fat chunky handle on my P&N bowl gouge because my wrists are fubar (ulnar nerve).

With you on that one. I have permanently seized joints in my hand from football injuries (40 yrs ago). Not the best thing to have as a wood turner!

Originally Posted by hughie

But by the look of it there are several hundred years of experience here behind the answers here, so thats good .

That's definitely true Hughie though as inferred in one of the articles you posted (thanks for that) there may well be a great deal of habit and reluctance to change assiciated with this history. One of the first projects that most woodturners choose for themselves is to make their own handles with little consideration as to which may be the best timber, shape or length. If I'm a typical example, several itterations and variations are made over the years, even if for no other reason than having a bit of spare time and thinking that that a block of timber would make a really nice looking handle (eg Wenge!). In my case this has resulted in a variety of shapes and sizes that I think match the tool and have the advantage that Kuffy refers to of not being locked in to one shape for the hand grip.
I'd love to tap into the millenium of experience but suspect that like everyone else its going to be a continuation of experimentation to find personal preferences. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to catalogue suggested handle shapes for differing types and sizes of tools??

I like the first criteria for evaluation in the UQ doc above:

13. VALIDATION - CHECKING OUT HANDLE DESIGN
• The Mark 1, zero mode, naked eye-ball test. Does it look right?
• Does it feel right, consciously? Is the load comfortable?
• The wet slippery soapy hand test - will the handle feel secure without having
to rely on friction?
• What is the maximum force that can be exerted on it? (This can be measured
using instruments as simple as a kitchen scale and a bathroom scale).
• What is previous experience with such handles? Are there publications or
catalogues or internet examples of them?
• Is the handle used in the expected way?

assessing , evaluating , critiquing handles etc is probably can of worms. Consider , the minimalist, the artistic, the professional to name a few who will have definite preferences on looks, before we get into Fuzzies list. Because we are all different I suspect we can come together on some of the basics and there will be many exceptions ie I have a friend who has a 25mm gouge with a 1.8m handle. He reckons its the best thing ever, I coudnt use it in my shed the damn thing would touch the walls

Richard Raffan made a comment about sharpening several years ago that underlined a thought worth considering. The question to him was about sharpening and getting a good edge and finish. He said and this is a paraphrase 'it doesnt matter how the grind looks as long as it cuts for you'.
Now I fall into that category, much of what I make for myself in the way of tools lathes etc does the job but lacks any fine detail or fancy finish. Most folk who visit are very gracious
I would welcome the results of such an excerise but cant really get involved as it would take up too much of my time. It would need a fairly indepth look at handles and my background suggests it would be very involved with much detail.

My only advice is make your handles one at a time, test them and discover progressively what works best for you.

As a starting point begin with a design from an experienced turner like Richard Raffan or Brendan Stemp, and modify from that to suit yourself.

I found over 50 years of turning that longer, lighter and thinner works for me.

I wear rigger gloves when I'm turning and mostly outboard, so that has an influence on my preferred sizes.

Here are a few photos...

IMG_20170224_183705.jpg

IMG_20170224_183930.jpg

IMG_20170224_184447.jpg

IMG_20170224_185010.jpg

At the thinnest points the profiled handles go down to 25mm.

The 1/2" gouge handles are about 300mm long

The 5/8" and larger gouge handles are about 400-500mm long

The handles on deep hollowing and coring tools about 500-600mm.

I don't notice a big difference between straight and profiled. One of my favourites is the curtain rod (yes, just cut to length) on the left in the first photo. The flutes running along its length provide a nice grip. I would make all of my handles out of curtain rod, but, as others point out, the handles help to quickly identify your various gouges. Yes, I could paint the handles different colours to do that, but that doesn't appeal to me aesthetically.

The waist point on my profiled handles are carefully located to sit at the most commonly held position to which my hand returns most frequently.

On the balance point, I don't like my tools to be too handle or gouge end heavy. So, shot filled handles have never felt comfortable for me; longer and lighter worked better. I rarely work with a tailstock, so length is not an issue there.

The handles that I least enjoy are those that came on my old P&Ns, of which I have a few, but nice brass ferrules!

The small handle on the left in the third photo is one that you don't see very often; very Scandinavian and mid-century modern. It is the reverse of the cigar shape and quite nice to use, IMO, especially on smaller tools. Worth trying if you haven't done so.

The one thing I can say for sure is that my next handle will be different in some way from all my others.

Stay sharp!

Neil

Thanks Neil, a great post - serious thanks. Several thought provoking ideas and also intriguing seeing all those tool shapes - wondering exactly what they are used for!! I also like the curtain rod flute idea for grip - a variation on Woodbturner's ladder rung idea. The Scandinavian shape looks very cute - kind of counter intuative to a comfortable grip but I'm guessing that with fine work there is a tendancy to alter hand positioning and this shape aids with grip?
I'm with you on lead shot. I've played around trying to get the correct balance and in the end just gone with a lighter slightly longer handle.
Pat kindly scanned and emailed me a Raffin designed handle which will definitely be used as a design premise for my bowl gouges - though I'm not sure how it will appeal asthetically if I flute it as well!!
Thanks again
Phil

Originally Posted by hughie

I would welcome the results of such an excerise but cant really get involved as it would take up too much of my time. It would need a fairly indepth look at handles and my background suggests it would be very involved with much detail.

No stress Hughie, I very much appreciate your thoughts and input. This post has been excellent in enabling me to gather information and ideas. The photo's are also excellent guides and prove the point when experienced turners show such eclectic shapes and sizes that there is no such thing as an "optimal shaped handle". I've already started drawing up some ideas and will continue to mull over for a while. I'll give you a yell when I'm ready for someone to test my prototypes

Originally Posted by Phily

No stress Hughie, I very much appreciate your thoughts and input. This post has been excellent in enabling me to gather information and ideas. The photo's are also excellent guides and prove the point when experienced turners show such eclectic shapes and sizes that there is no such thing as an "optimal shaped handle". I've already started drawing up some ideas and will continue to mull over for a while. I'll give you a yell when I'm ready for someone to test my prototypes

Yeah as I mentioned its a bit of a can of worms and most definetly one size doesn't fit all.

Well as Neil suggested make one and try it, see how you go. Mine kinda evolved over time, never did have a favourite shape and really didnt look for one. I was never ever going to make a matched set as some do, a bit too pragmatic for that.
All I found was the greatest variation/change etc related to what it does. If you hollow the deeper you go the longer the handle get . I now have a couple around 500+ so the saga continues

Originally Posted by Phily

Dam, I thought I had the only signed copy!!!

You know I've got one as well Phil.
Read this post with interest, but at the end of the day you need the handle to be comfortable and fit for purpose. It also helps to distinguish between tools, especially if you can't turn two the same .
Cheers mate

I read the paraphrased following in a turning book about two turners. Can't remember the book or the turners.

Famous Turner One was demonstrating with a favorite tool with a raggedy handle, ferrule was bailing wire more or less wrapped around the handle.

Famous Turner Two told him that was a disgrace and made him a beautiful handle and presented it to FT1.

Several months later FT1 was demonstrating and using old raggedy handle on favorite tool. FT2 asked why he was not using the nice handle.

FT1 said "It's too pretty to use, and I like the feel of the old one".

Originally Posted by Wood Nut

You know I've got one as well Phil.
Read this post with interest, but at the end of the day you need the handle to be comfortable and fit for purpose. It also helps to distinguish between tools, especially if you can't turn two the same .
Cheers mate

I'm starting to like the idea of picking my 4 favourite go to tools, making handles from the same materials but tweaking the design to both fit the chisel type and so I can quickly find the one I want to use.

Originally Posted by Paul39

FT1 said "It's too pretty to use, and I like the feel of the old one".

A good yarn and proves that we all have our own unique preferences. I bet FT1 also used an old Taylor HSS chisel with his own variation on an Ellsworth grind. Couldn't see the point of spending money on cryogenic stuff when its so quick and easy to hand grind an edge!
And nothing wrong with that point of view either!! For me, I enjoy using nice looking tools, but they also have to be functional - not just pretty to look at. Quite a few of the handles I've bought from big name manufacturers look the part but have not been the best to hold. It takes a fair bit of willpower to reef out the tool and put the pretty handle to one side in preference for my home made job!