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Thread: A Pot

  1. #16
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    I don't see too much wrong with that Steve. The joints line up and seem to be accurate. The only thing that may be a concern is the top and bottom. I would like to see 8 segments instead of 4. I think you have done well...

    Jim
    Sometimes in the daily challenges that life gives us, we miss what is really important...

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by powderpost View Post
    I don't see too much wrong with that Steve. The joints line up and seem to be accurate. The only thing that may be a concern is the top and bottom. I would like to see 8 segments instead of 4. I think you have done well...

    Jim
    Thank you Jim. And I agree that 8 segments for the top & bottom would look better. I'd have less end-grain to deal with, too.

    I'm a bit concerned about one aspect though. The lid and bottom of this are only segmented this way because I assembled it before being advised by Michael Brazeau in a post here in my last bowl thread that it's not a good idea to have segments meeting in the middle as it can cause cracking/warping, particularly with diameters greater than 100mm.

    From the look of Michael's work, he knows what he's talking about, so in the future, on stuff this size, I'll probably be using a solid layer, a 'plug' or the 'floating base' method outlined by Malcolm Tibbetts. (Two articles attached.)

    I'd be interested to hear your view on this. Is it a really common problem, or does it only rarely happen? I haven't seen any problems (yet) on any of the 3 segmented pieces I've completed so far, but the plate with a 75mm base that I'm making has a solid bottom, just in case, and the small vase I have planned will also have a solid base.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

  4. #18
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    Hi Steve, I think you realise I have done a little segmenting, my first one was in the late 80's. Since then I have made a lot of segmented platters up to 350mm diameter and quite a few segmented hollow forms. I don't know of any failures. However, I do try to keep the bases less than 150mm diameter and usually turn them no more than 6mm thick. I have read those articles before and have had discussions with Malcolm Tibbett about this perceived problem. I know of one platter that lives in Melbourne where the climate can change radically from one
    extreme to another, still in good condition. Much of this discussion is based on theoretical and hypothetical ideas.
    They mentioned stave construction. Where staves meet the base and /or a top ring, I incorporate a stepped joint. This is a mechanical joint not depending solely on glue.
    I use timbers that I know to be "dry" and select timbers that have known properties. I do not aim for "perfect invisible" joints because my theory is that the glue joint is just that little bit thicker, allowing for movement. Neither do I sand the joints but leave them straight off the saw. I have dedicated saw blades for segmenting and keep them sharp.
    A "floating" base probably is a good idea, I have never found them necessary. You do need to understand wood and how it behaves, but that comes from experience.
    The failures mentioned in those articles could have been caused by a few other issues not mentioned in the articles, who knows?
    Just some of my thoughts in the subject.
    Jim
    Sometimes in the daily challenges that life gives us, we miss what is really important...

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by powderpost View Post
    Hi Steve, I think you realise I have done a little segmenting, my first one was in the late 80's. Since then I have made a lot of segmented platters up to 350mm diameter and quite a few segmented hollow forms. I don't know of any failures. However, I do try to keep the bases less than 150mm diameter and usually turn them no more than 6mm thick. I have read those articles before and have had discussions with Malcolm Tibbett about this perceived problem. I know of one platter that lives in Melbourne where the climate can change radically from one
    extreme to another, still in good condition. Much of this discussion is based on theoretical and hypothetical ideas.
    They mentioned stave construction. Where staves meet the base and /or a top ring, I incorporate a stepped joint. This is a mechanical joint not depending solely on glue.
    I use timbers that I know to be "dry" and select timbers that have known properties. I do not aim for "perfect invisible" joints because my theory is that the glue joint is just that little bit thicker, allowing for movement. Neither do I sand the joints but leave them straight off the saw. I have dedicated saw blades for segmenting and keep them sharp.
    A "floating" base probably is a good idea, I have never found them necessary. You do need to understand wood and how it behaves, but that comes from experience.
    The failures mentioned in those articles could have been caused by a few other issues not mentioned in the articles, who knows?
    Just some of my thoughts in the subject.
    Jim
    Thanks for the detailed response Jim. You've allayed my concerns considerably. I'll take care and avoid full segmented bottoms when I can, but for smaller pieces will still do it. I'll go up to 8 segments as you suggested instead of 4, too. 4 segments was a bit lazy on my part.
    I'll start going a bit thinner on my bottoms as well. Usually I leave 8mm of meat, but I'll reduce that to ~6mm from now on wherever possible.

    I always work with very dry, well cured, usually recycled timber, so typically there's very little movement. I do have to sand my segment edges - I use a dedicated 60T blade, but my cheap GMC mitre saw jumps around a lot. I only sand with 80 grit, though, to leave a 'key' for gluing.

    Thanks once again for your input, it's very much appreciated. This has been playing on my mind for a few weeks now. I want to make sure I learn the right methods, or I'll get into trouble when I progress onto more complex stuff.
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

  6. #20
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    Hermit
    A nice looking pot.
    Whats the date of the clubs show and sale?
    I may get down there to have a look.If I do ,I'll expect to see yours .
    Ted

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnerted View Post
    Hermit
    A nice looking pot.
    Whats the date of the clubs show and sale?
    I may get down there to have a look.If I do ,I'll expect to see yours .
    Ted
    Hi Ted. Thanks for the feedback.
    I've got to have the registration form in by 14th July, but the actual exhibition is from July 22 until August 16, at the Shoalhaven Arts Centre in Berry St. It's a collaborative effort between the 'Shoalhaven Woodcraft Society', 'Nowra Spinners and Weavers' and 'Shoalhaven Potters'. There should be plenty of nice stuff on display and for sale.

    After the encouragement in the above posts, I've decided to definitely put a few things in. I have this pot, a plate almost finished, (my best piece so far, I think), and some other turned things that might be OK, including one or two of my little lidded boxes. I haven't shown anyone outside the forums my CBG guitar yet, either, so it might also be there.
    I wish I had more time, I'd also put in the vase I'm working on, but there isn't time.

    Grumpy has the opening hours, below:
    Creative Moments 2014.JPG
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

  8. #22
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    To me the pot reminds me of a cookie jar. We never had a cookie jar when we were little and even if we did I do not think there would be anything but crumbs left. Although these days I am more likely to leave the cookie in the jar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit View Post
    I was sort of hoping to get enough positive comments on this to give me the courage to put this and a couple of other things into our woodies' club's exhibition/sale next month, but the silence speaks volumes. .........
    Sorry but this is not a good reason to not enter a piece.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit View Post
    ... I don't want to make a fool out of myself by displaying amateurish work, so I'll give it a miss I reckon.
    Maybe next year, after more practice.....
    My jaw dropped when I read this. You most likely have heard this before but I am going to say it here as well, we are our own worst critic.


    And I commend powerpost response to getting you to think about entering.


    Now Hermit(Steve); Lets talk about entering this competition next year. http://www.theaustralianwoodturningexhibition.net/#! And yes I have read your response on the other thread.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christos View Post
    To me the pot reminds me of a cookie jar. We never had a cookie jar when we were little and even if we did I do not think there would be anything but crumbs left. Although these days I am more likely to leave the cookie in the jar.
    Yep, I agree, that or for wrapped sweets, after-dinner mints etc. Whichever, they wouldn't stay in the jar long. Probably a better idea than teabag storage.


    Now Hermit(Steve); Lets talk about entering this competition next year. http://www.theaustralianwoodturningexhibition.net/#! And yes I have read your response on the other thread.
    Honestly, Christos, after seeing the quality of work on display this year, I won't be able to produce anything good enough until at least the following year. That's what I'm aiming for, anyway. Meantime it's practice, practice, practice, rasing the bar a little with each piece.

    I will start thinking about what sort of thing I might want to enter. I'm a slow thinker.
    I want to do some more complex segmented pieces with feature rings, but I really need a table saw (and a place to store it) to do that. I'm limited to a bandsaw, a cheap compound mitre saw, wide drum sander (and lots of hand-sanding segment edges). No jointer either, but I use my router table for that. I'll have to see what I can think up.

    Thanks for the vote of confidence, too. It's much appreciated.
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

  10. #24
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    Hermit,

    I like the pot the way it is. The workmanship and finish are excellent, shape pleasing, and I like the quarters over eighths for top and bottom.

    I am glad that you will enter the pieces.
    So much timber, so little time.

    Paul

  11. #25
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    Nice pot Steve,
    Maybe you could use it as a salt pig if you don't have one.

    Nice beads and good proportions.

    Pete

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul39 View Post
    Hermit,

    I like the pot the way it is. The workmanship and finish are excellent, shape pleasing, and I like the quarters over eighths for top and bottom.

    I am glad that you will enter the pieces.
    Thank you Paul, I'm feeling better about it now. I originally wanted to enter the exhibition, never even been to one before, but really didn't think my stuff was up to it.

    No wonder I like these forums so much - such a great bunch of guys, always ready to help or encourage us beginners.
    And the work that those of you with a lot of experience post is always inspiring. Keeps me going.


    Quote Originally Posted by _fly_
    Nice pot Steve,
    Maybe you could use it as a salt pig if you don't have one.

    Nice beads and good proportions.

    Pete
    Thanks for the good comments, Pete.
    You know, I had to look up salt pig! I checked out a few pics. I don't think I've ever seen one before. There are some pretty impressive looking 'salt pigs' on Google images.
    Here, the salt resides in the Saxa plastic container it came in. You're right, though, it has that look about it. Needs a big hole in the side, though, and maybe some pigs ears.

    You've given me the idea of making one now. It'd be interesting to turn one on two axes, (is it axes? axies? axises? axii?), something like this:
    (The all-knowing Google says 'axes'. Pity. I sorta liked 'axii'.)
    salt pig.JPG

    If done as a segmented turning, the main body interior could be turned, then the top added and blended, then a separate piece could be turned and added to the side. And some ears, of course.
    Sounds right up my alley - you know how much I like messing around on long, drawn-out projects. Watch this space.
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

  13. #27
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    My mother always had one as a pot like yours, with a lid to keep stuff getting in there.
    Hers is made of stone, thinks its a bendigo pottery pot and lid (think the lid has a small notch in it for the spoon).
    Just sits next to the cooktop on the bench.

    But yes it might be a nice project for double axis turning.
    You could also make the little spoon shovel thing that lives in there as well.

    Glad to see your having fun with the lathe.

    Peter

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by _fly_ View Post
    My mother always had one as a pot like yours, with a lid to keep stuff getting in there.
    Hers is made of stone, thinks its a bendigo pottery pot and lid (think the lid has a small notch in it for the spoon).
    Just sits next to the cooktop on the bench.

    But yes it might be a nice project for double axis turning.
    You could also make the little spoon shovel thing that lives in there as well.

    Glad to see your having fun with the lathe.

    Peter
    I said multi-axis before I thought much about it too much. That would need a fair bit of shaping afterwards, since only part of it could actually be turned, but two-piece segmented would be interesting maybe, or two solid pieces? Tricky to get a good joint though.

    You raise a good point with the cover. Here, without a cover, it'd get a good dose of dust.
    Still, I like the shape. I might make one sometime to add to the pile.

    (TeaLady could do a good job of one in pottery.)
    ... Steve

    -- Monkey see, monkey do --

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