Thread: Safety - Risk or Certainty?

Hello Mate
Yes, I remember reading those articles, I found them informative and caused me toreflect upon my own activities as a wood turner. I too have submitted many articles which have been published, but I usually sign a Copyright release which measns I cannot reproduce thier contents anywhere else.

Willy
Willy

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

This has made me curious as to how widely read is UK Woodturning magazine in the Australia?

&

Are turners in denial that quite severe injuries, particularly head injuries leading to traumatic brain injuries, do occur & with quite high frequency?

I did read the articles and they were very detailed and well thought out and I liked them. But I also felt that they were maybe a tad too detailed for a lot of turners to take it all.

Maybe a poll would be helpful to ascertain that.

Peter.

For me personally I do my pre turning checks with lathe set up! And all machines in the factory where I work but as I'm the only person in my shed at home not so much as I was the last person using the machine.
the biggest injury I notice is cuts on hands and legs from tools or timber.
I do admit to not wearing my PPE 100% of the time. Probably 90% of the time
Do I put my trade experience down to the 10%?! Yep!
unfortunately we can never eliminate all danger and risk of injury but we can certainly work to minimizing the risk to ourselves!
Some lathe manufacturers need to look at this as well but I'm not going to ramble on to much! But your right it's not a topic discussed enough!!

Good to see the "Hierarchy of control" being referred to in this forum.
My experience from visiting sheds and measuring dust levels therein is that this concept is very poorly understood and many woodworkers that understand it seem to be unwilling to act on it where dust is concerned.
Despite the fact that woodturning is one of the highest dust exposure woodworking activities most wood turners seem to be mainly relying only on masks while standing knee deep in dust and in a fog of invisible dust.
Of course the fact that the fine dust cannot be seen means the risk cannot be adequately (re)assessed but there are simple principles that can be used to reduce the risk.
The most common problem I have encountered is dust extractors (mostly leaking) inside sheds, a problem that can be significantly reduced by locating or venting the dust extractor outside the shed. The next biggest problem is using dust extractors that have too low a flow and ducting that is too narrow which cannot keep a shed clear of fine wood dust.

Originally Posted by Willy Nelson

Hello Mate
Yes, I remember reading those articles, I found them informative and caused me toreflect upon my own activities as a wood turner. I too have submitted many articles which have been published, but I usually sign a Copyright release which measns I cannot reproduce thier contents anywhere else.

Willy
Willy

Willy, A bit of promotion helps

Originally Posted by Sturdee

I did read the articles and they were very detailed and well thought out and I liked them. But I also felt that they were maybe a tad too detailed for a lot of turners to take it all.

Maybe a poll would be helpful to ascertain that.

Peter.

Peter, thank you for the feedback, I accept what you are saying & it certainly was an issue that I attempted to manage - how much detail is to much or too little?. #2 was the most difficult article. Explaining how to "quantify" risk and the concept that even if the probability of a severe injury occurring is quite low, it is the severity of the outcome that really determines how seriously we address the hazard.

A prime example is parts of a bowl flying off as we turn a bowl with cracks or voids. It is a very common occurrence, a bit of a knock every now & then, that most turners take fairly lightly. Eventually the time comes when the bit that comes off has enough energy to cause a very severe injury or forces evasive action or causes a stumble or fall that results in a head injury. To late to take action after the event.

It took years for many drivers to accept wearing seat belts. The probability of a wood turner receiving a head injury while turning is as high or higher than them being injured in a car accident.

Originally Posted by chuck1

......
I do admit to not wearing my PPE 100% of the time. Probably 90% of the time
Do I put my trade experience down to the 10%?! Yep!
unfortunately we can never eliminate all danger and risk of injury but we can certainly work to minimizing the risk to ourselves!
Some lathe manufacturers need to look at this as well but I'm not going to ramble on to much! But your right it's not a topic discussed enough!!

Your PPE compliance would be deemed high - well done. As wood turning has waned from a trade to a hobby/arts pursuit I think we are rapidly loosing the "common knowledge" that once was common. As a trade/craftsman you would be far more aware than the hobbyist of potential hazards while turning and the H&S compliance requirements forced upon you in a workplace. Your "trade knowledge" permits you to make an informed value judgement on risk & wearing PPE but the regulators may not agree.

Manufacturers, importers, wholesalers, retailers, organisations, clubs and turners, all have a part to play. I agree some of the policies, designs and manufacturing quality we are seeing now leave a little too much to chance, particularly supplying machinery in knockdown form.

How many turners are aware of Nova's Infinity chuck "precautionary recall" in the US? Thankfully to my knowledge they did not reach our market. http://www.novainfinitychuck.com/recall.html

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

. . . The probability of a wood turner receiving a head injury while turning is as high or higher than them being injured in a car accident.

Is this something you you can back up with some data. Next month I'm going to present a talk on wood dust to a local woodturning club and if it can be substantiated then I would like to mention this as well.

You mean this magazine?






Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

Originally Posted by BobL

Is this something you you can back up with some data. Next month I'm going to present a talk on wood dust to a local woodturning club and if it can be substantiated then I would like to mention this as well.

Ooooh Ooooh
Will you do a talk at my club too??
Willy

Originally Posted by Willy Nelson

Ooooh Ooooh
Will you do a talk at my club too??
Willy

Sure - no worries. I might also demo the dust measurement like I did at your place.

I had a bit of a look on the web in relation to lathe injuries and while there are many individual reports of turning accidents,I am surprised that turning accidents do not turn up in any official WW injury studies.

In an extensive 1990s study by Monash Uni on injuries, hospitalisations and deaths arising from DIY activities in Victoria, lathes do not even rate a mention.

In the US a study of a 238 WWorkers in New Mexico does not report a single lathe accident.
The machines most likely to cause problems were jointer planers with a incidence rate of 4.9 per 1000 person hours of use.
In decreasing order were Chisels, Drill presses, RAS, BS, Hammers (all the the 2 - 3 hours of use), Routers, Circular saws, power drills, and then table saws were all at 1 or less incidents per 1000 hours.

None of this says turners should not be careful but perhaps they are in fact more careful than other woodworkers?

As wood turning has waned from a trade to a hobby/arts pursuit I think we are rapidly loosing the "common knowledge" that once was common. As a trade/craftsman you would be far more aware than the hobbyist of potential hazards while turning and the H&S compliance requirements forced upon you in a workplace. Your "trade knowledge" permits you to make an informed value judgement on risk & wearing PPE but the regulators may not agree.

Manufacturers, importers, wholesalers, retailers, organisations, clubs and turners, all have a part to play. I agree some of the policies, designs and manufacturing quality we are seeing now leave a little too much to chance, particularly supplying machinery in knockdown form.

I suspect much has to do the turners work experience and his or her exposure to risk analysis, the hierarchy of control etc. I imagine if you work in relatively safe environment such as an office as opposed to something at the other end such as mining. Then the awareness difference would be enormous and play a major part in risk awareness.

Manufacturers etc in the above paragraph, responsibilities depends greatly on state legislation. In NSW there are clear distinctions of responsibility of all who are involved. We may well be looking at, in regard to this area, simply variations in state legislation.

Originally Posted by BobL

Is this something you you can back up with some data. Next month I'm going to present a talk on wood dust to a local woodturning club and if it can be substantiated then I would like to mention this as well.

Bob,

Yes, I believe I can certainly disprove the myth that it does not happen in wood turning. The best I have found is UK research in 2002 that states 400 hospitalisations per annum for lathe injury.

I have waded through a lot of DIY injury, TBI research & statistics. It is very time consuming & difficult to find hard conclusive direct data on wood turning severe injury / death because of the way medical statisticians classify injury, mechanisms, location etc. If you look at Traumatic Brain Injuries (TBI's) the injury rate for over 55's increases dramatically. This is also the wood turning demographic. One of the noted deficiencies in the statistics is that "deaths on scene" do not make it into the "hospitalisations" statistics so we get a misleading impression of actual risk of death.

There was a wood turner found dead with in NSW just prior to Christmas 2012.
Joan Kelly died in the US in 2010 after being found alone and injured - she passed away after not regaining consciousness many days later.
Lynne Yamaguchi's injury & courageous blog - http://www.lynneyamaguchi.com/wordpress/

http://www.cdc.gov/traumaticbraininj...ernalcause.pdf US research which shows the alarming increase in fall related TBI's for over 55's.

http://www.westernsydneywoodturners....Oct%202012.pdf
http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/89...athe_accident/ (may not be a wood lathe but a typical home workshop serious injury - death)
http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/20...nvestigations/ (again not a wood lathe but a simple hair entanglement causing death.)

Look at any "Worksafe" site for "lathe injury" for typical workplace injuries which have similar entanglement injury mechanisms to wood lathes.

are typical but there are many more instances available.

The main message is for turners not to become alarmed but to accept that the hazards do exist, that the risk does exist, it is real, it is relatively common and that it should be taken seriously - and it can easily be reduced at minimal or no cost..

Unfortunately too many turners and demonstrators do not take it seriously. The Western Sydney newsletter highlights a typical scenario that has happened many times.

Originally Posted by DaveTTC

You mean this magazine?

Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

Yes. Go to the back issues for #252 to #257. Hopefully GMC have / may eventually add these articles to their Woodworkers Institute site.