Thread: Threes a crowd

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

have a few distractions at the moment interrupting my wood turning.

Good.. I still have a chance. You are getting the hang of it now. They look nicely elegant.
Jim

Originally Posted by powderpost

Good.. I still have a chance. You are getting the hang of it now. They look nicely elegant.
Jim

Nah you're safe as houses in Open, I'm still playing in Intermediate and enjoying it.

Lam goblet cup reverse.jpgLam goblet cup.jpg

Now the hard question, what sort of time delay/learning curve are we talking to get to this stage? I'm in Intermediate, so I don't have to play in the pig sandpit just yet, but I'd sure like to put some segmented boxes on pedestals (with finials) in the comp next year. The books have been delivered though I haven't got them yet and the Incra mitre jig and base are a few weeks away. 60tooth saw blade also arrived today apparently. Or are segmented boxes too hard for someone learning to cut and glue small pieces of wood together? Something like the tops to those goblets would be sensational.

Originally Posted by jefferson

Now the hard question, what sort of time delay/learning curve are we talking to get to this stage? I'm in Intermediate, so I don't have to play in the pig sandpit just yet, but I'd sure like to put some segmented boxes on pedestals (with finials) in the comp next year. The books have been delivered though I haven't got them yet and the Incra mitre jig and base are a few weeks away. 60tooth saw blade also arrived today apparently. Or are segmented boxes too hard for someone learning to cut and glue small pieces of wood together? Something like the tops to those goblets would be sensational.

Jeff, we have met a number of times so I’m confident you will get there easily. I'm still in intermediate myself. Unfortunately I probably won't be sending anything down to AWTEX as life has conspired against me this year. I have some part finished pieces but more pressing commitments to family issues. I've been playing around doing this for probably 7 or 8 years maybe more. I don't get much lathe or saw time so if you have time on your hands you should get there much faster. Until fairly recently most stock was ripped down on a modified el-cheapo GMC table saw and dressed with a Stanley hand plane. I now have a Woodfast TS250 which has presented a number of new challenges.

These goblets are not segmented in the traditional sense. I prefer to call it linear lamination. The blank is laminated up from ripped sections from 200 to 500mm or longer. A short length of it is then used for the goblet cup which is effectively end grain or in spindle orientation, not face plate. The Incra mitre jig will not help too much with preparing stock for that.

Linear laminated joinery techniques aren't difficult if you have a reasonable understanding of timber properties & movement, the table saw and an eye for detail & precision. The rip cuts are relatively easy but because many of the rips I am dealing with are for thin veneers or 2mm squares or triangles with 6 or 8mm sides precision is the difficult part to master. It can be quite frustrating & demanding to make slight adjustments. Wide glues lines become very apparent in finished pieces. The Lin Lam technique also does not lend itself to “cheats” to refine cuts after they have been ripped so you really have to get accurate rip cuts straight off the saw or be prepared to spend an inordinate amount of time with a hand plane and gauges.

Coming up with a ripping jig/sled and construction system that works for you to achieve the required accuracy plus remain safe is the part you have to master. Eli Avisera has a good <st1:stockticker>DVD</st1:stockticker> on how he prepares his star blanks which I purchased & viewed well after I started making my blanks. I have independently developed & followed a different path to Eli’s construction technique but definitely inspired by his pieces. Unfortunately there is very little documented information about the old Tunbridge ware construction techniques and not many present day turners who have mastered those techniques.

I would be practicing with pine and other similar materials before using higher value timbers as you use a lot of material some times as much as 3 to 4 times, even more with lots of thin rips, than what you see in the finished stock blank. It’s definitely not a way to use up scrap small pieces.

“Beyond Basic Turning” by Jack Cox will answer a lot of your questions about cutting, lamination & staving but it is a heavy read and not readily available anymore.

Geoff W

Thanks for the long post Geoff. You put a lot of time and effort into it which I certainly appreciate. Funny thing is, I sent an incorrect link of your work out to a mate and he asked me why I wanted a CNC router!. Anyway, the mate (Ken W.) was here visiting me in hospital tonight and I showed him the pics and explained what I wanted to do - and he referred me straight to you! How's that for a vote of confidence? My wife Anne, Ken and Helen brought me in two books to ponder over - Segmented Turning A Practical Guide by Dennis Keeling and the Malcolm Tibbetts book on the Art of Segmented Wood Turning. Obviously, I have a lot to read but hey, I'm here for a few weeks and have plenty of spare time as treatment only lasts 20 minutes a day. I won't have the incra base or mitre sled for a while and I need to fix up my mates Jet drum sander before I can start to accurately rip and thickness sand smallish pieces of wood. Otherwise, I really have no excuses not to get the accuracy I need. 45 degree cuts will test the Sawstop though as well as my patience. The work you and Jim put up is amazing as well as inspirational. I'll do a lot of reading over the next few days and no doubt will have some questions. Thanks again for the detailed reply.

Originally Posted by jefferson

Thanks for the long post Geoff. .... Anyway, the mate (Ken W.) was here visiting me in hospital tonight and I showed him the pics and explained what I wanted to do - and he referred me straight to you! How's that for a vote of confidence? ........- Segmented Turning A Practical Guide by Dennis Keeling and the Malcolm Tibbetts book on the Art of Segmented Wood Turning. .................. The work you and Jim put up is amazing as well as inspirational. I'll do a lot of reading over the next few days and no doubt will have some questions. Thanks again for the detailed reply.

A referal from Ken W - wow thanks Ken. Hope you get to enjoy the reading. I know how you must be feeling couped up and eager to get back on the lathe etc. I was hospital bound for 3 weeks in 2011 but could not have internet etc as I was in a Cardiac CCU - humbugs!

Best to not confuse yourself with the two techniques & with all your new toys the segmenting path is probably the logical one to follow for now. Any way you know how to get in touch with me through Ken W so anytime mate. You get well and back onto that lathe.

A great post Mobyturns(Geoff).

A photo for Jefferson ....

Laminated goblet b.jpg

Thanks, Geoff, very impressive. My first question is this - how did you exactly find centre before you started turning? The first of many questions.

Originally Posted by jefferson

Thanks, Geoff, very impressive. My first question is this - how did you exactly find centre before you started turning? The first of many questions.

Good question - center the blank on the pattern & not the exterior of the blank.

I precisely scribe lines from point to point on the star & also from the corners of the square - hopefully they coincide. If they do cool If there is a little miss match I fudge it. Seriously!

As the blank starts off at 300 mm or so long I "lightly" center it with steb centers then adjust to suit. Make a tenon to precisely suit my chuck jaws just above the optimal circle gripping range on both ends of the main blank & also on any intermediate "sub blanks" then part off. By optimal circle gripping range I mean just above the "perfect circle" of the jaws set with enough for tightening with out grain crushing. I usually get 3 to 4 maybe 5 "sub blanks" from a 300 mm long main construction blank, with clever tenon placement and reversing during turning. I hate wasting these as there is a hell of a lot of work in them - helps to be a tightwad.

When you fit these sub blanks to the chuck jaws you seat the precise shoulder of your tenon against the face of the jaws & "lightly" chuck them up & check radial run out, nothing to fancy as they will move, often noticeably, during turning as you relieve stresses. This is the main reason I am a big fan of Vicmarc jaw sets - simply the best IMO. Never an issue with movement when the tenon & shoulder are cut precisely, as the jaws pull up true. The jaw design on the Nova Midi jaw sets has a slight "gripping" lip which causes me problems. A simple squaring cut only as deep as the edge of the pattern quickly reveals any run out. Not really much you can do from that point on. If the run out is severe enough you can skew it across in the jaws but that is counter productive most times. Usually means something has gone wrong in the make up of the blank. If OK nip it all up & keep your fingers crossed it stays that way for the entire process.

You can adjust slightly if you know what is happening and how to favor them, but I have found it becomes like a dog chasing its tail, once you start adjusting ....... you go round in circles.
It all gets back to precision through the whole process, just think Jim Carroll's opinion of Ken Wraight's attention to detail. Slight variations in dimensions, squareness, even over compression of one of the glue up's (& there are many) is noticeable to the very critical eye. Poor glue joints show like the proverbial dogs b.... any one can pick them.

Then it is attention to a smooth form, consistent thickness or consistent transitions while turning, any variation shows as varying width lines or kicks in the "pattern".

Then you wipe bloody sanding sealer on & it smudges the reds into the whites DAMHIKT!

All in good fun though

I'm surprised at the level of interest this has drawn so thank you all who have followed this thread.