Thread: Accurate Mitre saw for box making

I doubt that any drop saw would be suitable for box making unless you were going to veneer over all the joints. To get the perfect crisp edges you need to finish off on a shooting board.

If you can afford around $500 then Dewalt; AEG, Hitachi or Makita will give you a good saw out of the box. You could also look at Trade Tools' own brand Renegade. Otherwise spend $100 on an Ozito, another $100 on a decent blade for it and $50 for a good set of earmuffs.

Second to what Chief has said.

To make a 4 sided box with mitred corners two critical measurements are required ... the angles must add to 90 degrees (usually 2 45's) and the lengths of the opposite sides must be exactly the same.

The shooting board, I prefer the sloped angle type for long mitres (Wide miter fence for shooting board - by rwyoung @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community

Cutting the initial angle can be done well on a table saw, or a chop saw ... doesn't need to be perfect if you then use a shooting board to refine the angle

Other equipment you will most likely need are:
1) clamps for glue up (could successfully use tape and rubber bands for smaller boxes)
2) Sharp chisel for the hinges ... and a sharp blade (striking knife for layouts)
3) Something for cutting the rebates for the ply bottoms (4mm or so router is fine)
4) Bandsaw or table saw for separating tops from bottoms ... and large sheets of 120 and 240 for flattening after cut. Or could do solid one piece tops instead.
5) angle gauge to check corner angles (I use a jig that has a perfect 90 degree angle on one end and use the square on the other)
6) tools to cut splines ... really are essential for boxes over 100mm for example,

I have seen boxes made very successfully using only a router table ... cut 45's with bit, do rebates with bits, separate using a double cut, cut splines, make plinths for boxes, etc).

Really, a tenon saw, a nice plane for thichnessing boards and shooting the angles, and a good router table, combined with a few jigs (shooting board, right angle tray, spline cutter etc) is all that is needed for a mitred box. BTW, a good router and simple jig can also cut finger joints and dovetails.

Regards

Rob

The commonly available power miter saws must all be properly calibrated for such work and you need a good and sharp blade. I've never used the Festool Capex saw but it wouldn't surprise me if it needed a tap now and then.
In the alternative you need a shooting board and a miter plane to suit. I have a Stanley 51/52 set and once set up it does great work. You could also use a handsaw miter box but you need a good taper-ground no set bladed saw like a Disston 77 and a steady hand to do the job cleanly.

Regards.
Rob

My 2c.

Grab a handsaw mitre saw for $75 like this one;



Then a trimmer for $350 like this one;



There is nothing other than a quality plane and shooting board that will come close.

I use the trimmer for 45 and 90 trims on most projects. Zero tearout and accuracy that hides an amateur ability like mine.


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Hi Fumbler,

The best advice I can give you is to get some lessons. There are a lot of good woodworking teachers out there. A good teacher can advise you on how to use hand tools or recommend good machines to do what you want. You can waste a lot of money and time otherwise.

As has been said above, the drop saws and chop saws are all great for house frames and fencing etc, but in my experience they are not precision machines, or do not maintain precision if you ever get them to it. With hand tools yes, a good shooting board and shooting plane can cut perfect mitres - if your hand skills and sharpening skills are up to it as the plane needs to be really sharp and how you hold the plane and the section to be mitred is critical.

For small boxes there are also guillotine machines called mitre trimmers https://www.carbatec.com.au/search?ProductSearch=CT-MT and, used carefully they will give you easy, perfect mitres. Just don't get your fingers in the way (but that goes for all cutting machines).

Another alternative is a good quality (probably second hand is best when starting out) table saw with a good, sharp (new) blade and a home-made sliding mitre sled jig can cut excellent mitres. There are lots of designs for such mitre sleds in magazines, and some magazines sell DVDs/CDs of their past library/issues so you can find one there without waiting for one in a new magazine. Such a saw is also of use for much more than mitres and can be used to make your mitre jig. Look for a decent brand like Jet, Laguna or even an older Luna, Hammer or MiniMax machine. You may have to adjust it initially but once set you should be able to get good repeatable results. I had bad experiences with the cheaper Chinese machines like Hare and Forbes and the equivalent c-tec and had to make lots of fiddly adjustments to keep them accurate. Having said that, as long as the blade doesn't have bad runout and wobble it is possible to use them - it depends on what your budget and space will allow.

Don't forget dust collection if you are using a power saw. Wood dust is very bad for your health, and it is the fine dust that you cannot even see that does the damage. I think the mitre trimmer is unlikely to produce any of that but all others will to some extent.

Happy woodworking, it can be a very satisfying hobby.

David

I have one of those trimmers, the exact one pictured (from Timbecon)
I must admit I don't really like using it, much prefer to use a good sharp plane, I find with the trimmer it either doesn't cut, then when you move the wood in slightly closer it takes off too much. Sure you can set up fences and stops and get more accurate results if all 4 pieces are exact length to start with but I find it hard to get an accurate thin shaving the exact same thickness for each piece I cut. I was hoping to use it to take fine shavings like a plane but it ends up either not cutting or then cuts too much off when I nudge it along a little. Maybe I should sharpen the blades to the same standard as my planes and see if that helps. I was using it brand new right out of the box but it still feels like the blades could be sharper.

After fiddling around with it for a while I had some fun but ended up putting it under my bench for another day when I have more time (never). When I'm doing something that needs perfect accuracy like box corners for a customer I'd rather not risk stuffing it up with my trimmer so I just use handtools and sneak up to the knife line. If you get good enough with your marking out and using planes you won't even need a shooting board. You have more control just putting it your vice and doing it by hand up to the scribe line (knife wall). Once you learn to use planes and sharp chisels for a variety of joints it will save you hours of frustration in woodworking, mucking around with machines that don't cut straight or don't allow you to sneak up on an edge or cut precisely to a pencil line without having to set up stops, fences and test cuts etc. Unless I'm doing a mass produced item (hardly ever) I do it all with tools these days. Much more enjoyable way to work as well. It's easy once you've learned and there's no going back. For custom made items it usually ends up quicker as well. And you can do it all in one spot without stepping away from your workbench, listen to the radio, talk to the kids, much better way to woodwork.

yikes!! I think I'll stick to turning for the time being, might make some inlaid "round boxes" for now......... Definitely not as easy as first thought. Best I wait til I have more time and space.

Thanks for all the tips.

Hi fumbler.

The hand mitre box with the 24tpi blade will do what you want.

Just take the time to set it up perfect.




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I have the Lion brand miter trimmer as well. My experience is that it works well for cleaning up sawn ends of pine, poplar, MDF and, at the hardest, small oak trim pieces. Tried it on some 4/4 planks and despite very sharp blades it splintered the outgoing/trailing ends a bit. Great for baseboards, knife mouldings and such, not really too good for box making.

I see Lie Nielsen makes a plane for shooting boards (expensive) and wondered if any of you fellas have used a plane set up specifically for shooting boards and what is your opinion. I have all the tools from the Kapex to a Incra 5000 sled on a SawStop but I hate to waste a bunch of time fiddling with something when there is a better solution.

I have a Lie Nielsen #9 (available new only as a special order) which I find indispensable for shooting end grain, 90 degrees and miters.

However you can use most bench planes provided they have a really sharp blade and the sides are close enough to 90 degrees to the sole that the blade can be set to 90 degrees.

Originally Posted by ian

I have a Lie Nielsen #9 (available new only as a special order) which I find indispensable for shooting end grain, 90 degrees and miters.

However you can use most bench planes provided they have a really sharp blade and the sides are close enough to 90 degrees to the sole that the blade can be set to 90 degrees.

Yes I agree, just use bench planes. If you learn to get them sharp (and keep them sharp) put them to use on shooting boards.
I personally feel that many people think that by going out and spending a pile of money on top brand planes suddenly all their problems with planes will be solved. If you don't know how to use planes and haven't had that moment when you suddenly realise how sharp they can be and how many things they can do then you will never get good results with Lie Nielsen (once the blade has gone dull).

On the other hand if you are using planes all the time for your work and love them then there's nothing wrong with going the next step and looking for premium solutions.

I've tried out those planes at the wood shows a few times over the years and although it was very comfortable to use and set up correctly it didn't impress me that much compared to just using a standard plane on one of my shooting boards. You still need to keep them razor sharp, especially on end grain hardwoods.

Rather than spend the money I'd rather spend some time making a really nice ramped shooting board and use one of my 5 1/2 sized planes that I hardly use, it has the extra mass needed for a nice consistent cut and I will leave it setup for use only on the shooting board. I think the plane only cost me $30 on Ebay, a Falcon, very nice Aus Made planes once they are fixed up and they usually have a bit more weight than the Stanley's, some people love this about them, others hate it. I notice that they also can vary in weight quite a bit depending on the castings they were using at the time of manufacture. Find a heavy one and use it for shooting! More importantly learn to sharpen properly, it's not rocket science and doesn't require all the fancy expensive jigs, I've been down that rabbit hole and so glad to be out of it, just learn it freehand, you will master it eventually. Practice on old cheap planes first if you're not confident. Buy some diamond plates and honing compound instead of a Lie Nielsen and you will find them handy for sharpening all sorts of things, marking knives, chisels, scissors.... You'll finally have sharp tools and wonder how you ever lived without them.

Fixing a wobbly mitre saw...