Thread: Making my first box

No, it’s not OK to glue it up - it’s risky. I’ve had much smaller boxes then that fail due to the top expanding - think less then half as wide.

Gluing the plywood base in is OK though, no e/c there.

Also, the mitre joints need reinforcing. This was discussed in a previous post - just a couple of weeks ago. In that post the side timbers were thicker and some members (though not me) felt they didn’t need reinforcing for this reason. Your timbers are thinner, however, and they present small glueing surfaces, more or less endgrain. This is the previous post and it deals with the same issues:

My first box - work in progress

My first box was done in exactly the same fashion, (rebated lid and base) and i ended up press fitting the top last, although, my last box i did it all at the same time then put splines i a few days later. I think its okay to go ahead and glue it up, but as Arron said, you need to spline the mitred corners, I also agree no matter what the size when end grain to end grain you need a spline.

also think about 1. finishing the inside before gluing up as easier. 2, protection from squeeze out inside the box, I tape everything to within an inch of it's life, looks like a big blue/green/yellow mass with clamps on, but it prevents me having to do major clean up work after. It also protects from glued stains.

Blue - strong hold - but has been known to lift the grain of certain timbers
Gold - strong hold, but not as strong a blue - gentler on gain
Green - Low tack - only good for 1 application if you have to lift it to re-align it generally wont re-apply so a new piece is required. Great for raw timber application and easy removal.

Should look stunning when finished, what finish are you going to apply to it?

Richard

Hi Dave, the process you are using is the same as as what i have used for the majority of my builds and i have made well over 200 boxes of similar sizes to yours and larger and as far as i know none have ever exploded due to lid expansion. If anything my lids tend to shrink rather than expand.
My few tips for you would be,
Do not glue up the whole box including lid and base.
Now that you have cut to size i would trim a few more mm off each side, finish sand them on the inside, lay a line of masking tape along the inside join of each piece and glue the 4 sides together first.
Lay out 2 rows of masking tape that are 50mm longer than the total sum of the 4 sides and about 5mm in from the top and bottom edge.
Lay your 4 pieces flat end to end making sure the edges mate together with no gaps.
Put glue in all the V's and fold the 4 sides together.
Push down on all sides so all the ends and sides are even height.
Clean the glue straight away from the rebates where the top and base go.
Square the box up. I use a jig made from ply with with 2 pieces of timber at 90 degree and all i do is push the box tight into the corner and let the glue set for a while.
I never use clamps, i believe the masking tape does just as good a job if your cuts are accurate. If your cuts are a bit out then try rubber bands first with clamps a last resort.
Don't be in a hurry.
Once the glue is set enough fit the base first. This is where trimming the sides a bit smaller will give you an advantage because if the box is out of square by the smallest of margin you will now have a bit of excess that you can hand trim the base for an exact fit. Let the glue set.
Don't be in a hurry
Now fit the lid in the same way and leave the tape on the inside corners. You can remove this once you cut the lid off.
Leave the masking tape that you joined the box together with on until all the glue has set properly and you are ready for a tidy up sand.
Don't be in a hurry
Mark out the depth of the lid to where you want to cut it off.
Wrap the box again with masking tape covering the line of the cut and another row close to the bottom so you don't get a roll on the box when passing it over the saw blade.
Set the blade to within half a mm of the total thickness and after cutting 4 sides remove the lid by cutting the rest with a fine tooth hand saw.
The rest is just clean up and finishing sand
Good luck

Thanks for the replies guys.
Yes I should sand all the parts now. Good point.
There are some little bits of tearout and a split in the front part so it's going to have some imperfections.

I'll try to setup a squaring jig on some melamine for the glue up. Good idea.
The mitres are not perfect. I have improved them with a shooting board but I haven't been able to get them perfect.

Thanks for the advice to glue the walls first. Makes perfect sense.
The base and the lid panels are still marginally larger than the walls at this stage. I'm not sure how much because I haven't finished making sure all the parallel parts are the exactly the same length. I'm not super confident about getting these panels to fit 100% to be honest but I'll give it a go.
Thanks for the advise to not be in hurry. I'll try.

Yes I know I will need to make a spline cutting jig and add some splines. Another first for me.

Originally Posted by double.d

Hi Dave, the process you are using is the same as as what i have used for the majority of my builds and i have made well over 200 boxes of similar sizes to yours and larger and as far as i know none have ever exploded due to lid expansion. If anything my lids tend to shrink rather than expand.

Just to correct a common misunderstanding I see here a lot. Nothing is going to ‘explode’ due to expansion/contraction. A much more likely circumstance is that the lid will apply intermittent but tiny pressure on the joints - slow attrition. Eventually, in 5 or 10 years time someone will look at the box and see that a joint is starting to open up, and almost inevitably blame glue failure.

Cheers
Arron

Originally Posted by Arron

Just to correct a common misunderstanding I see here a lot. Nothing is going to ‘explode’ due to expansion/contraction. A much more likely circumstance is that the lid will apply intermittent but tiny pressure on the joints - slow attrition. Eventually, in 5 or 10 years time someone will look at the box and see that a joint is starting to open up, and almost inevitably blame glue failure.

Cheers
Arron

Ah well!! If they are going to blame glue failure then that's sweet. I was worried they would blame the maker.

Originally Posted by DaveVman

Ah well!! If they are going to blame glue failure then that's sweet. I was worried they would blame the maker.

No, that happens when you line it with purple when they want pink......

Yeah explode is probably a bit harsh but in saying that i once made my wife a flooded gum box to put her rental property keys in. The box was always left in the car and you can imagine on a particularly hot Queensland day it actually did come apart in a big way, but to its credit once it cooled and absorbed a bit of moisture it came back together and still looked acceptable.

make it rule now that any box i make taller than 70mm has corner splines.

Originally Posted by double.d

Yeah explode is probably a bit harsh but in saying that i once made my wife a flooded gum box to put her rental property keys in. The box was always left in the car and you can imagine on a particularly hot Queensland day it actually did come apart in a big way, but to its credit once it cooled and absorbed a bit of moisture it came back together and still looked acceptable.

make it rule now that any box i make taller than 70mm has corner splines.

DD, I noticed the recurring theme in you previous post....... Don't be in a hurry (good advice).... its taken me near on 40years to figure that one out. And yet I still manage on the odd occasion to get caught up in the moment, probably closer to the finish line though, which is when you need the most patience.

Well my mitres are not good so tape and rubber bands and even a band clamp were not enough.

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Also some little bits broke in the corners. I am unsure how I should fill those bits. The colour of the QLD walnut is so variable.

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How are you cutting your mitres? IMO the only sure fire way is a table saw with a mitre sled. Other than that a shooting board.
You can't expect to be perfect on your first try so you need to note your mistakes and think about how you will right them the next time. Get yourself some wood filler and patch it up, sand it and finish it off.
I still have the first box i ever made, its a shocker and its on display in my lounge room to remind me of where i have come from.
Way back i started a thread in the pictures section called Still Prcacticing. I used this to put myself out there for criticism or praise and it motivated me to try harder on each build.

Thank you for your helpful advise.

I cut them with the SCMS and then discovered this was far less than ideal. So I made a shooting board at 45°. But the shooting board idea came to me from common sence not from seeing one. I have the world's cheapest plane and no doubt my technique is all wrong but the main problem is that I discovered making a shooting board to stay at 45° is not as simple as it first seems. Next time I should do some research and find out how the experts make them.

There was a bit of mucking around to get them half reasonable and I'm not happy with one corner on the inside.

The broken chips came from blowout.

Yes next time I'll make a sled and try it on the table saw. I didn't do that because I don't have an angle gauge and I didn't realise that is the recommend way.

I don't know how to make the filler match the QLD walnut.

Thanks for the encouragement.

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I don't get it. If I had a mitre saw that can't do a proper mitre cut I would return it.
What's the point of a mitre saw then.