Thread: My first box - work in progress

Good work so far Barry.

Just checking one thing, are you intending to lock the mitres somehow? Without strengthening, they’ll not be strong enough to go the distance, especially on the little trays. Just a couple of sawcuts across the mitre and bits of veneer glued in place is enough to lock a mitre together.

Hi Arron,

Appreciate the input.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Was contemplating tray separators (+) shaped in both trays and in the bottom of the box.

Was thinking about epoxying instead of wood glueing.

Would be interested in clarification of the last sentence.
Splines maybe?

Mitre joints are inherently weak because they are pretty close to endgrain, and as I’m sure you are aware endgrain gluing is problematic. If you want something to last forever, you need to reinforce a mitre joint. There are easy and attractive ways to do this after the box is constructed and the joints are glued.

I would reinforce the main box with dovetail keys. Do a google on ‘Benham dovetail keys’ and you will see a good video. It’s quite a nice look, although I think the idea of contrasting keys is greatly overused. It has the added bonus that many viewers think they are real dovetails .

The little trays and lid I would reinforce with veneer feathers (many other names, veneer slips, slip feathers etc). See here Keys, Tongues and Slip Feathers - DT Online . By using the same timber as the tray you can make these almost invisible.

If the box sides are highly figured timber I would use veneer feathers on the box corners too - to avoid too much feature.

Even standard 0.64mm commercial veneer is entirely adequate to hold a box together. If you grab a tiny piece of veneer and try to pull it apart without twisting it you will find it impossible, it’s strength is immense.

For gluing endgrain, epoxy glue does not add much - it’s a good glue but not a silver bullet.

Barry,

+1 for all of Arron’s advice.

A good looking box for a starter!

Few extra thoughts.

If you’re using slipfeathers (keys), make sure the grain in the keys runs lengthways across the join, especially if using veneers. Along the grain the veneer is strong but it is easy to pull apart sideways.

Too late if this box has been glued up, but if you don’t want to use external slipfeathers next time the loose tongue shown in the article Arron refers to works well, or you could use internal splines such as L-shaped pieces of 3 or 4 mm ply inserted into grooves in the corners. This only works if you are going to line the box and hide the splines.

On the box itself there appear to be burn marks (saw marks?) on the top edge. These are easy to remove by sticking a piece of abrasive paper to a piece of flat mdf using spray adhesive or double sided tape, turning the box upside down then sanding by moving the box across the paper in circular motion, both clockwise and anticlockwise. For boxes I haven’t found epoxy necessary although I’ve used it when making an MDF carcass because epoxy contains no water so it doesn’t swell the MDF.

As to the mitres, how are you cutting them, Barry? With a table saw and sled or with a 45 degree bit in the router table or some other way?

Looking forward to seeing the next steps!

Brian

No need for epoxy. Titebond is strong enough for the mitres.

The box will benefit from feathers. If you get a few strips of veneers glued together they can be made to look very fancy.

On my feathers, I just put them in, then use thin CA along the edges. It wicks in and is super strong. When the feathers are trimmed and sanded there is no gap nor glue to be seen. Doing the feathers with wood glue is messy and tedious. You need to be fast as the glue makes the already tight feather hard to get in.... CA post-insertion eliminates this hassle.

thanks all

This vid makes it look easy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP5uVJzpt8s

Following on from Brian’s comment on the burn marks on the top of the box.

I do the same thing as you, leave the top and bottom edges of the box rough, and not necessarily well aligned vertically, then do the following.

Use a tall fence on your tablesaw (mine is just a piece of mdf that fixes to the tablesaw’s fence).

Set the blade height at just a couple of millimeters above the side wall thickness. Make sure the blade is quite vertical.

Set the fence to blade distance till it is 1mm less then the maximum box height.

Look at top and bottom of box, and see which one is most nearly flat. Let’s say it is the bottom.

Press the bottom of the box against the tall fence, in front of the blade, and push it along the fence, making a light skim cut of the box side that is facing down. Turn over and repeat 3 more times, once for each remaining side. Move the fence over a smidgen and repeat if needed.

Then flip the box over and do the bottom in the same way.

This is a very powerful technique for box building, although it does require well set up equipment. You can leave everything a bit oversize deliberately, and finish everything to size this way - box, lid and trays, adjusting the height of each component till they all look right together. By using a well tuned tablesaw you get clean straight lines, with minimal time wasted.

It also works best if you keep your fingers away from the saw blade.

After sizing on the tablesaw, it should require only a light sand to finish. I did that on a drum sander. If too aggressive you will round an edge, so start passing through without contact and sneak it till you are just skimming. Pass the box through beam-on so you don’t get cross-grain scratches, holding the box firmly as it goes right through the machine.

Thanks heaps to all.

I've seen the spline for mitres before.
But don't recall it being to add strength.
Just highlights that look really good.
Too cool that its both.

Had not anticipated incorporating them in my first box.

Would love to add them with the contrasting colours.
I think it looks fantastic.

Contrasting keys would be very cool as well.

Maybe two of 1 and 1 of the other would look cool.
spline---key
key------spline
spline---key
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We're thinking about using Dominos for joining the top frame and centre piece.

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For me, Hidden splines are like hidden dovetails.
A lot of work will little recognition.

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We haven't gotten around to the blade marks on the top of the box yet.
But have considered both methods suggested.
Many thanks.
Will discuss with my mentor.
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I tried to stay on top of the squeeze out but my techniques are lacking.
I wiped away and sharp edge scraped out for an hour and still had squeeze out the next day.
The CA along the key edges sounds much better.
Many thanks.

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I'm sure the mitres are my bad.
I was using digital gauges to set then check the angles.
Spot on.
Then tested two cuts and check using a builders square.
Spot on.

But was failing to test x 8 cuts which is 2 end cuts on 4 sides making a square. grrrrr

For every project:

1. Follow alignment instructions for my LS1216.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vJNsvcom6A

2. Then test the actual cuts x 4 to make a square.
adjust by 1/4 to fix and recut (or 1/8 and recut all 8 end cuts)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GJ32CzFtyI&t=248s

I've also got zero clearance tape all over the mitre bed and should probably be removed.

Good advice from Arron, slip feathers or mitre keys are a must.

Regards
Keith

Hi everyone,

Could you please post some pictures of your finished boxes with the trays highlighted and approximate age of the boxes now? It would be useful to know how many you have needed to remake and the time frame for when they needed to be remade from the time you originally made the box and/or trays.

Regards,

Rob

Originally Posted by LGS

Hi everyone,

Could you please post some pictures of your finished boxes with the trays highlighted and approximate age of the boxes now? It would be useful to know how many you have needed to remake and the time frame for when they needed to be remade from the time you originally made the box and/or trays.

Regards,

Rob

I think this should really be moved to a new thread. Some of us are following Barrys escapades with interest and don’t want to see it morph off into a box show and tell.

I'm certainly not wanting a show and tell, but Barry is making his first box and I think it is useful to explain the effect of using splines in terms of longevity of the item being made. So at what stage do you say that a box made with splines significantly outlasts a box without splines? This is an integral part of his learning. Quantification is an important factor in deciding which way to go n constructing the box. By all means follow Barry's escapades, but give him reasons to follow certain paths. Unilateral decisions aren't helpful. Discussion of the methods to be used are ultimately made by the maker. I had no intention of spoiling the thread, just wanted Barry and others to be able to make informed decisions.

Regards,

Rob

Well, OK. Here’s a box I made in 2002. Sorry about the rubbish photo, but it’s all I can do at present. I have boxes dating back to 1996 but I gave those away to mother, sister, friends etc. I’ve never seen any of the joints on any of these boxes fail, not one, ever. A testament to pva, really.

At the other end of the scale, I have accidentally split apart severalboxes doing things to them after gluing up but before putting the splines/feathers in. From memory, gently banging the mitre key in. Also, I remember an accidental bang against the bench side while spinning around for some reason - that was enough.

This one is Qld walnut. I rather like how it ages. The tooth marks on the corner came from a cat with pica.

59927680-4D1F-47E7-9202-88BF737F865A.jpg

Edit.... sorry about the upside down photo. No desktop to fix it.