Thread: New brass hinges being made - can I get opinions

Thank you for doing this WP, I am definitely IN!
The only addition/clarification I would add to your list is that the leaves also be 'parallel' in addition to 'flat'?

fletty

Fletty, absolutely! The design is for the leaves when folded to be the thickness of the entire knuckle. They are also completely even from the knuckle to the edge of the leaf, both outside and inside.

It drove me nuts that the edge is thinner no matter the supplier, so if I used the router then the hinge looked sunk on the inside of the box.

This is a hangover from door hinges and other bulk-made commodity hinges. Apparently it's to provide the "give" for poor fitment and sloppy work to not bind. The manufacturers simply make small hinges smaller versions of the big hinges which is completely wrong! Box hinges are NOT simply smaller versions....they are completely different beasts.

What is cool is that over the last two years I've been writing long emails to these guys and trying to explain these differences. They didn't listen as the current stocks are a) made for the kitchen cabinet industry b) made a million at a time so stocks take 3 years to deplete between runs and c) they weren't even aware of box makers!

The straps are important, but I currently fit them with a 1/4" router bit... So I'm thinking it should fit that. I can't find a 6mm router bit. It is my ambition to ensure the fitment is PERFECT... I don't want gaps, even tiny ones, in the final fitting.

Part of this process has been lots of photos with "correct" and "incorrect". I've circled dozens of examples where tiny mistakes are imperfect and dozens where they are perfect. It's been good fun and I've learned a lot about tiny tiny errors.

Yes, they will be made in China, but there are two Australian supervisors on board the whole time (for the whole operation, not just my little projects) and it being set up as a precision engineering fab, not some medieval stamp-em-out el-cheapo gulag.

No question that I'd be a purchaser of the hinges you are describing. I've never understood the poor quality of cheap hinges, especially those that are machined from solid. Pretty much the same material and process is required to manufacture so, given the machinery available today quality should always be good. That of course also means there is no reason for the very high price for the top hinges on the market. If you can get a good product at a reasonable price you are going to hurt a lot of the competition. Go to it, I can't wait.

Rex

Originally Posted by woodPixel

I can't find a 6mm router bit. It is my ambition to ensure the fitment is PERFECT... I don't want gaps, even tiny ones, in the final fitting.

is 15/64" (=5.953 mm) close enough to 6 mm? if yes try Carb-I-tool part number T206 MS, or T206 M (in solid carbide) or T1406 M if you want a 1/2" shank.
It would pay to contact Carb-i-tool, because I suspect that 15/64" is an approximation to 6 mm, not the other way round.

CMT also does 6 mm, which would you prefer?
Solid carbide down cut spiral, 8 mm shank, part number 192.860.11 (or 6 mm shank 192.060.11)
straight plunge bit, 8 mm shank 174.060.11
straight bit 25.4 mm of cutting length, 6 mm shank 712.060.11, 1/4" shank 812.060.11, 8 mm shank 912.060.11
straight bit, short series 6 mm shank 711.060.11, 1/4" shank 811.060.11, 8 mm shank 911.060.11, 12 mm shank 911.560.11, 1/2" shank 811.560.11

Hi WoodPixel, your plans sounds very good. Good hinges and a good price are hard to find. Hence I try to do a lot of boxes without hinges, save the hassle and save money. The quadrant hinges from African Surgeon are very good, so I will still be using them when the price of a box permits. Good luck with your venture, I've nearly finished my tripping about down in Tassie. I've posted home 60kgs of Tassie Timber to my mate back home, so I will be keen to get cracking upon return. I would be interested in purchasing should your plan come to fruition,

Good luck

Paul

Originally Posted by ian

is 15/64" (=5.953 mm) close enough to 6 mm? if yes try Carb-I-tool part number T206 MS, or T206 M (in solid carbide) or T1406 M if you want a 1/2" shank.
It would pay to contact Carb-i-tool, because I suspect that 15/64" is an approximation to 6 mm, not the other way round.

Wow. I would think that is worth have a very good look at. I really like the idea of a 6mm hinge and a 5.953mm recess to fit it into. It will be very nice and snug.

The snugness eliminates any possibility of little gaps and using a sure-fire method of fitting with the router table ensures a quality finish.

I'll order one and give it a whirl. Carbitool sounds nice, I like their bits

I bought a 6mm router bit from McJings late last year for fitting their strap hinges. I used a vernier to go through about 10 bits which were supposed to be 6mm before a new box of true 6mm bits were located under the main display table. Just went to look up the part number etc. and it appears their website has disappeared at the moment. Quality seems fine for the light use I will be using it for.

Good luck with your sourcing project, I will be interested in the outcome.

Alan...

Timbecon also have 6mm bits in both 1/4 inch and 1/2 inch shanks. Haven't bought any so can't speak for their quality.

Brian

Some outstanding news to share.

BTW, that info on the router bits is fabulous. This is why I love this forum. Deep knowledge in areas that are esoteric.

I've been offered the option of PVD finishing (as well as super polished and/or lacquered). I've never heard of it, but their is some info: PVD Coatings and a picture of an actual job is attached.

Basically, its an aerospace finish that will guarantee an absolutely perfect finish that is utterly impervious to abuse. It can also allow other finishes over the brass hinge in a range of metals and finishes. PVD Coatings . I thought the polished brass and nickel finishes were what we'd be after.

Neato!!

The gear is fantastically expensive, but heck, if its on offer, use it! No one else has it!!!!..... these hinges are for presentation boxes. Things that will be used and abused for 50 years. I was told the finish is a "lifetime finish".

pb_lg.jpg

Im beginning to get excited

I have been using leaf hinges which i really like but the quality is really poor and the UK ones are cost prohibitive .

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Wow. I would think that is worth have a very good look at. I really like the idea of a 6mm hinge and a 5.953mm recess to fit it into. It will be very nice and snug.

The snugness eliminates any possibility of little gaps and using a sure-fire method of fitting with the router table ensures a quality finish.

I'll order one and give it a whirl. Carbitool sounds nice, I like their bits

I don't quite follow why a 6 mm diameter bit is preferred over a 3/16" (= 4.8 mm bit) or 1/4" bit. all 3 bits will cut a recess 3.85 mm deep, if that is the depth requited for a hinge leaf. The only difference will be the radius at the internal corner.

I'd buy these hinges too, if they become available. Hope it all works out OK.

cheers,

ajw

Originally Posted by ian

I don't quite follow why a 6 mm diameter bit is preferred over a 3/16" (= 4.8 mm bit) or 1/4" bit. all 3 bits will cut a recess 3.85 mm deep, if that is the depth requited for a hinge leaf. The only difference will be the radius at the internal corner.

Its only for the strap hinges which have round ends. One would want the round ones to save chiselling the new rebate square, which I personally despise doing. Since we are making these ourselves we can match any easy to obtain bit

For the butt hinges, one simply uses their own methods (I make templates).

The strap hinges are quite challenging to get right. We'll want these to be perfect.

Looks like we are going for 1000 of each in brass to start, with flush fitting flat and phillips screws. If they are good, then it will be stainless and increased volumes to 5000.

Exciting

What I find so confusing is that any company can get some super Dooper whiz bang engineering on a microscopic scale and it's perfect to 0.001mm, but we can't get a bloody hinge that doesn't look like it's been stamped out with a cold chisel and hammer by a blind amputee.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Looks like we are going for 1000 of each in brass to start,

Is that 1000 individual hinges or 1000 pairs?

Originally Posted by woodPixel

What I find so confusing is that any company can get some super Dooper whiz bang engineering on a microscopic scale and it's perfect to 0.001mm, but we can't get a bloody hinge that doesn't look like it's been stamped out with a cold chisel and hammer by a blind amputee.

Does anyone else feel bad about number of soon-to-be-unemployed blind amputees?

Cheers

Doug