Thread: Golden Ratio

You are right> It does not llook good.

Have you though about applying the ratio to the side of the box to give you the height?

I know that will give the box a long and lean look but at least two faces will fit the ratio
and the whole item may look right.

The golden mean ratio 1:2 as 2:3 occurs all throughout nature as no doubt you know if your applying it to timber work.

You can apply it to Box's (Wasn't the ark of the covenant measurements given in golden mean ratio?).

You however can apply it any combination of ways you like (height width depth)....

The reason it doesn't "look right" these days?

Palatial proportions.

Before the Renaissance I think (going from memory here) the Knights Templar brought this golden mean ratio in architecture back from Jerusalem with them around 1190 onwards somewhere when Godfry de Bullion managed to overthrow Jerusalem * the knights spent 90 years digging around in the ruins (horse stables underneath) of Solomons temple - & that ratio led to the start of the French architectural reconnaissance around the 1500's onward and the proportions were Golden mean ratio.

That proportion became known as palatial proportion.

Furniture made to Palatial (Golden Mean) ratio tends to look "right" in Palatial proportioned buildings & rooms (Palaces etc).

We tend not to build much to these proportions these days and there's reasons for that - largely that the spans require old growth forest logs and there are few old growth forests trees around these days from which to mill the substantial timber beams that will span that distance without sagging, so we tended towards longer narrower proportions for our houses as timber beam lengths decreased.

Furniture that we sit on/at however, chairs desks dining tables etc still do well with this proportioning for height (but not so much width any longer) - because the human body is built at Golden mean ratio...

Nowadays we could go back to Golden mean ratio in architecture if we wanted too in building, with the advent of steel trusses etc.

Golden mean ratio furniture can look out of place in any room that's not Golden mean ratio dimensions.

For your box to be "right" on Golden mean ratio - if the length is say 3 feet - then the depth should be 2 feet while height is only 1 foot or combinations of this such as Length 3 feet depth One foot and height 2 foot.

When you say you applied Golden mean ratio to only 2 dimensions - whats the point of that?

If it were a coffee table lets say - then a 3 ft long coffee table thats 2 feet wide and only 1 foot tall, will look kind of "squat and fat"... but if you make it 3 foot long and 2 ft tall and only 1 foot wide it looks too narrow in a modern proportioned long narrow roomed home!.

So some items just don't seem to take Golden Ratio all that well - Coffee Tables is one example I messed with and eventually gave up on.

My 2 bobs worth for the abbreviated version what little it's probably worth.

Cheers

Excellent piece of history TT! Thanks!

Art, you're reading my mind...I've swung the measurements around to the end sides of the box. I'll drop the height down to three inches. Now, the golden ratio will be reflected in the top and the ends.

I'll rip down to 3 3/8 inches to account for a lift lid technique I'll use with a 3/8 inch straight bit.

Since when is the golden ration 2:3???

thats 1.5 to 1.

It 1.618 to 1.

I'm using the 1.618 : 1 ratio.

The ends will now be 3" high and 5" wide, and the top is just under 8" long (almost 1.618 : 1 with the 5" measurement.)

The front of the box will now be just under 8" by 3"...obviously not the golden ratio.

I've got four of these boxes, so #3 has been pressed into service for testing!

Here's my rip down to 3 3/8 inches. Final height will be three inches once the lift lid is routed. I already like the look a lot better.

Euclid

's Elements (Greek: Στοιχεῖα) provides the first known written definition of what is now called the golden ratio: "A straight line is said to have been cut in extreme and mean ratio when, as the whole line is to the greater segment, so is the greater to the lesser.

Golden ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes it resolves down to 1.6180339887 - but where did it come from?.



The aspect ratio is that "one is to two as two is to three".

You kids and your calculators need to throw them away and go back to using mental math to understand the origins.

In that diagram above... there are 3 lengths.

Length Blue a
Length Red b
and
Overall length a + b

In essence the ratios are;- 1/3rd 2/3s and 1 whole

or

1:2:3

Its not rocket science.

Check this one out from the library - https://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...-ratiotng2.xls
Regards
and Happy new year



P/s I don't know what these confusers are up to, it wanted me to open in Media Centre which don't work it needs Excel.

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

In essence the ratios are;- 1/3rd 2/3s and 1 whole

or

1:2:3

Its not rocket science.

No its not rocket science, Its maths,

thats what I'm saying,

Nothing to do with 1:2:3 ratios

Not rocket science but Natural Science. Phi appears to shape many features of the plant and animal world.
I use one to proportion the positions of major features in w/c paintings of my local mountain landscapes.

Somewhere. I got plans to make a Phi proportional divider. Built with mahogany and rosewood strips and bunch of pop-rivets, they sell nicely for $15 each.

Originally Posted by Robson Valley

Not rocket science but Natural Science. Phi appears to shape many features of the plant and animal world.

Yep. Also, the ratio between adjacent Fibonacci numbers (1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21....) approaches phi as the numbers increase. Things like the number of seeds on a sunflower or pine cone are Usually Fibonacci numbers.

Using the Golden Ratio means that something will usually look good, but it's not the only proportion that can look good, and everything, including boxes, has to be scaled to meet their intended purpose.

TT, thanks for your interesting history lesson.

The golden Ratio applied to 3 dimensional boxes is 0.62: 1.0:1.62

so, if the width of the box is 100mm, the height is 62mm, and the length is 162mm

From the photo, it doesn't look like you have applied these figures

To be honest, I just make what I think looks good, and never worry about if it meets some ratio or not.

Paul

Originally Posted by Pauls321

To be honest, I just make what I think looks good, and never worry about if it meets some ratio or not.

Paul

Fair enough, Paul, but I bet that you will find your good looking boxes approximate the Golden Ratio - it has been used for centuries