Thread: A sort of box.

Hi Rex,

Just how big are they ... do they hold a full bottle of the stuff?

I am interested in how you did the "herringbone(?)" effect ... looks like it takes a while to do.

Now I know what a bicker is (was).

Thanks

Rob

If you applied the same technique you used of joining to make a flat piece with 22.5deg angles, you could then chuck it up in the lathe and turn down a lid to fit either snuggly or loosely into the top of it. It then becomes a lidded box and thus fitting all the criteria.

Sorry Tahlee, I should have thought to give dimensions in the original post - this one is 80 mm high by 80 mm in diameter, about the size of a small water tumbler. My understanding is that a similar technique was used to make many different sizes, some with handles on each side, typically for use as family porridge bowls. Personally, I am happy to take the good stuff one mouthful at a time. Incidentally, there are other names used for these but I will stick with Bickers because I reckon I can pronounce it although it may be quite different with a Scots accent.

The "herringbone" effect, we call them feathers although I have no idea if there is a correct term, is done by cutting into the staves with a chisel at the appropriate angle. The staves are soaked in hot water to make the wood more pliable before cutting, but most of my failures occur with the feathers splitting off, either when they are cut, or when the pieces are forced together. The type of wood used is obviously the key factor and I have yet to find contrasting woods that give consistent results. Apparently the originals were made from Alder with the darker strips having been soaked in a peat bog, probably for months I suppose.

My understanding is that these were made by tinkers and it would appear to be a lost craft. Lionel Jefcoate (Google him, he's an amazing chap) got into this as a result of being sent a newspaper cutting by a friend in Scotland. This featured a photo of a Bickers and a request from a local museum seeking someone who knew how they were made. I don't know whether they got any other responses but Lionel was up for a challenge and he figured out a way. The damn things caught me the same way and I put quite a few hours into achieving the result you see in the photos. It was time well spent as it brought me friendship with an inspirational old school craftsman.

Fumbler, I suppose you are correct about making a lid and calling it a box but there are a few reasons why I won't be doing that. First because it wouldn't be a Bickers anymore, secondly because I don't have a lathe and also because the vessel itself was hard enough to make and I don't want to introduce glue into the game. Part of the attraction is being able to tell people that there is no adhesive used - if you remove the hoops the cup would actually fall apart. In any case, is there some way to define a box? I have seen some very un-boxlike structures that seem to satisfy people's expectations.

Rex

In any case, is there some way to define a box?

A box is a space with wood around it.

Love the bickers. Never seen them before, and am intrigued. Good on you for following up and keeping up a lost skill.

I think they are great with a good deal of thought and skill gone into making them. Well done Rex.

I'm 50% Scott and 50% Viking, and both sides of me approve of a vessel for drinking from!

Skol!

What a cool little thing. I remember seeing these on my grandfathers bar shelf. I'm sure they were made with round brass rings too.

How the bloody hell did you do that jaggy joinery????????

Good work. Well, more than that, for you've done coopering which is a difficult thing to master and done it on your first crack!

Well done Rex, love the idea of these and the execution of the concept is superb.
Doing it all by hand makes it a pretty awesome feat as well.
I initially thought my glasses were dirty or that the photos you posted were out of focus or blurred such is the effect produced by the joints in these "boxes" before I realised what you had produced.
What a great way to have a wee dram, and create a conversation piece when you do.
Cheers mate,
Ian

WoodPixel, that sounds like a recipe for a Shetlander.

Despite plenty of effort I have been able to find out very little about these cups or associated vessels so I would have loved to have spoken to your grandfather. The only photos I have seen had them bound with what appeared to be cane, so it's interesting to hear of others with brass hoops. My friend Lionel also makes traditional ships wooden buckets and of course they have brass hoops, so I assume that's why he does his that way and I just did the same.

As for how the "jaggy joinery" is done, I'll post something on that in a day or two. It would be easy to say "that's a secret" as it took a while to work out a method, but no-one else does that kind of thing on this forum. I've learnt a lot here thanks to the generosity of many others so I should contribute if I can.

By the way fellas, thanks for the kind comments - and I like that definition of a box.

Rex

Wow. All hand made from milled stock? Very, very nice.

Originally Posted by Rex Ashwell

As for how the "jaggy joinery" is done, I'll post something on that in a day or two. It would be easy to say "that's a secret" as it took a while to work out a method, but no-one else does that kind of thing on this forum. I've learnt a lot here thanks to the generosity of many others so I should contribute if I can.

Please do!

I've seen the jaggy joinery before - although not in cups like the bickers - and thought "I can do that!" So I proceeded to attempt a simple box lid; I vaguely recall several attempts at trying to join a strip of QLD mahogany between two boards of lightly coloured Aus Cedar... none of which could not be deemed a success by any definition of the word that doesn't incorporate the concept of "firewood."

I'll be pulling up a chair for your masterclass...

Masterclass! Jeez, put the pressure on why don't you. Hopefully I'll be able to explain this in a way that makes some kind of sense.

First step is to thickness the material and rip it into narrow strips with the finished angle of 11.25 degrees (or thereabouts as there are 16 staves) on one edge. Then cut the strips into pieces of the desired length. The first photo shows the template for setting the table saw blade and a few staves at various stages - basic strip angled on one edge, tapered and angled both edges, feathers cut, staves fitted together and typical failures with feathers split away (this drives me nuts).

To taper and angle the second edge I made an attachment for my shooting board and a few quick passes with the plane sorts out what might otherwise be a trickey job for me - Lionel's hand skills are such that he just planes them free hand!

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Once enough staves,with plenty of spares, have been cut they are soaked in hot water (almost boiling) for half an hour or so then clamped in the fixture shown and the feathers are cut. As you can see from the photo this is a hinged fixture with a saw toothed profile along the top. The blue rubber pieces are lamb docking rings that function as springs. A stave is clamped in place with the fixture in the vice and I use an old plane blade to cut each feather, carefully driving it along each ramp by lightly tapping with a hammer. Then the stave is flipped over and the other edge is cut. I just press the stave down against those rubber half rings until it's flush with the surface and clamp it. The cutting takes a bit of practice but once you get the hang of it a couple of minutes is probably what it takes to complete one stave.

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Once sufficient staves are complete they are just pushed together, with the occasional gentle tap, until a cylinder has been formed, then two hose clamps are fitted, top and bottom, and tightened to bring the whole assembly into line. As the wood dries it shrinks, so the clamps need to be tightened two or three times a day for about a week until they don't want to move further, and that's the first stage complete. And that's enough for now, I'll finish the assembly description later.

Rex

Absolutely UNBELIEVABLE !!!!!!!!

Incredible.

I was wracking my mind for days thinking of how you did that. I was at an utter loss. Tricky machines, clever jigs, exotic router bits, arcane hand skills, magic.... all failures.

Then I see this.

I am, sir, humbled!

Astonishing. I love it!

Okay, it's now a week later - or after lunch in real time!

The result of all this effort so far is a small tapered cylinder of recently dried wooden pieces, joined with "jaggy joints" and held together by a couple of hose clamps. The next step is to sand the inside smooth and I made up a tapered block with a couple of slots for sandpaper wings to do this. It's a very loose fit and I spin it with a drill, then finish the job by hand.

Sanding the outside presented a bit of a challenge as I expected that the pieces would shrink together somehow, but in fact, the joints have no strength and they will fall apart unless they are held together. Lionel had the answer here and I copied him and glued a piece of cardboard on the top and bottom rims, removed the hose clamps and sanded the outer surface.

Next job was to cut a groove for the bottom and I modified a slot cutter by increasing the guide bearing size with a wooden disc to cut this with my router. Not really done by hand but quicker than making a scratch stock tool. Back went the hose clamps with a bit of protective material under them and the groove was quickly cut. I made a bottom, a disc of Rimu, loosened the bottom clamp and carefully pressed it into place from the top. Once the clamps were retightened I did a bit more sanding to thin the rim a bit and flattened the base on a sanding board.

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Whatever finish is preferred is applied in the normal fashion and it's time to make the hoops. I cut narrow strips of sheet brass, which need to be curved so that they match the cup's taper when they are joined. I guess you could figure the curve mathematically but I just wrapped a piece of paper around the cup and drew a line around it. Each hoop is formed then soldered and trial fitted, re-soldering until it fits just below the desired position. I then put a rivet in the joint and heated the hoop in boiling water before sliding it into position. As it cools it shrinks to a tight fit - there's a bit of trial and error involved in this procedure! That's it, all finished aside from a leak check and, once the finish is really dry, the final taste test.

As I previously stated, there were a lot of failures along the way, mostly because the wood choices didn't want to cooperate. Getting a final result seemed like a big deal and I was pretty satisfied with what I had done. That was about a month ago and I haven't made another since but they are too neat to give up on so I will make more in the future. I don't see them as a marketable proposition as there is just too much work involved in making one so there will be no production runs, at least in my workshop.

Rex

Thank you, nicely explained and illustrated.

I can see I'm going to have to try my hand again, you've given me some wonderful new ideas for segmented blanks for turning on the lathe.

Don't expect progress reports; I have a wood heater and know how to use it.