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  1. #1
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    Jun 2007
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    Default WIP - A trio of boxes - is mass production quicker?

    I'm conducting a little experiment with this round of box making. I'm going to make 3 identically sized boxes, and see how much quicker I find the process compared to my normal "one at a time" process. Presumably there will be time saved in setup, but will I find it to be significant?

    The boxes will be around 280mm x 215mm x 80mm. They will have mitred corners, and solid timber lids. Base will be ply.

    I've chosen walnut, myrtle and blackwood for the sides of the boxes. Rough stock shown below.

    Img 01 Rough Stock.jpg


    The hidden beauty begins to reveal itself after the stock is jointed, planed and ripped to width.

    Img 02 Jointed and Ripped.jpg


    Pieces are all over-length at this stage, so that I can attempt to select the best grain patterns for each piece.

    Img 03 Hidden Beauty.jpg


    The lid will be a free-floating solid timber panel, so a groove is cut to accept the lid at a later stage. The bottom panel is plywood, and it has its own groove.

    Img 04 Grooves for lids and bases.jpg


    This is the blade I'm using. It has a square grind to the teeth, creating clean square bottoms on grooves. This will also be used to cut the slots for the splines I'll use to reinforce the mitre joins.

    Img 05 Square Grind Saw Blade.jpg


    Next comes the mitre cuts. I've got a home-make jig that makes it safe and easy to cut accurate mitres (at least is usually does!). Time will tell if I get it right with these boxes.

    Img 06 Mitre sled.jpg


    I don't really keep track of time when I'm in my garage working on the tools, but this WIP is making me more aware of the amount of buggerising around (technical term) I spend with getting things set up. Making three boxes isn't taking much more time than making one at this stage.

    Part 2 to follow


    Cheers

    ajw

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Blue Mountains
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    Default Trio of boxes - Part 2

    To get the sides to the same length, I simply screw a stop-block to the home-made sled and cut the pieces to length.

    Img 07 Stop Block.jpg


    Blue tape is a great help. Boxes are coming together nicely, and looks like the mitres will be nice and tight.

    Img 08 Taking Shape.jpg


    A trial lid is made out of scrap MDF, to help "dial in" the exact setting for the slot. I use blue tape to "pack out" the fence until I get it spot-on.

    Img 09 Trial Lid.jpg


    This is a cross-section of how the lid fits into the side panel. The gaps allow for the lid to expand and contract, which is necessary because the lids will be solid timber. I learned this technique from AlexS. One day I hope to make a box as beautiful and detailed as his are.

    Cross section of lid.JPG


    Time to get moving on the lid panels. I'm using flame rosewood, NG Walnut, and sassy. I've flattened one face and jointed the pieces, and then glued them together. I'm trying a new technique here. I've glued some pine to the outside edges of each panel; the pine is longer. The idea is that when I run it through the thicknesser, any snipe that might happen will be on the pine, not the panel. After I get the panels to final thickness, the pine "rails" are simply cut off and become firewood.

    Img 10 Lid Stock.jpg


    While waiting for the glue to dry on the panels, I sand the interior surfaces of all the components. I start at 220 grit and work up to 400 grit using my Festool sander. I love this tool.

    Img 11 Sanding Interiors.jpg


    Part 3 to follow.

    cheers,

    ajw
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by ajw; 27th April 2014 at 07:07 PM. Reason: fixing errors

  4. #3
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    Default WIP - A Trio of Boxes Part 3

    Lid panels are cut to size using a cross-cut sled on the table saw, with a stop block fitted. The process of gluing sacrificial pine to the outer edges worked really well, and is a workable way of running smaller pieces of timber through the thicknesser.


    Img 12 Sizing the Lid.jpg


    After cutting the slot into the lid, a quick "does it fit?" is done. Looking good so far. This is the walnut box with NG walnut lid panel.

    Img 13 Lid in Place.jpg


    Because the lid sits proud, I'm going to add a round-over to the top edge to smooth things out a bit. This needs to be done before the box is assembled, because I won't be able to get to this area when it's glued up. I'm using the smallest round-over bit I have, and it looks about right to me.

    Img 14 Roundover on lid.jpg


    Lids fitted to the boxes, just to see what they look like. Additional shaping will be done the the sides of the box one it's glued up.

    Img 15 Lid with Profile.jpg


    At this stage, it's time to start applying finish to those places that are hard to get to later. This also helps stop glue from the mitres from sticking to the interior of the box when it's being glued up.

    Img 16 WOP on interior surfaces.jpg


    I'm now quite convinced that it doesn't take much longer to make 3 boxed compared to one.

    cheers,


    ajw

  5. #4
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    Aug 2010
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    Default

    Hi,
    An interesting thread. A few years ago I made 10 boxes in a batch, one each for the females in the extended family. The big saving for me was in switching the Triton back and forward from saw table to router table as they had dove tail (Gifkin jig) corners, doing 40 in a row without having to change anything was bliss.
    Regards
    Hugh

    Enough is enough, more than enough is too much.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Emerald, QLD
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    4,486

    Default

    I'm generally a one-off sort of bloke but I'm watching anyway
    .
    Updated 8th of February 2024

  7. #6
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    Townsville, Nth Qld
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    Default

    Thanks for sharing this valuable experience. Well done !

    The only disadvantage I can think of is that if you make a mistake, as I often do in my hurry, you have duplicated that mistake 3 times.

    I would probably have been inclined to make a 4th box at the same time, in case you bugger up ( technical term) one of the pieces in the other three. Nice to have a backup
    regards,

    Dengy

  8. #7
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    Nice work, and yes, I reckon doing a few at a time is more efficient. I've just done three at once because they had to be done in a hurry, though usually I prefer one-off designs.
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  9. #8
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    Default

    Coming together really well. Congratulations!. I have been thinking of a flat ground blade. Would you mind telling me what one you have.

    Thanks

  10. #9
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    I had an old blade ground half square. Sides are ground square on alternate sides, with the other side still angled. That way, you get a flat bottomed groove, but the blade clears it out better.
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  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Blue Mountains
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    Default

    The blade I'm using is:

    CMT 201.024.10 Industrial Ripping Saw Blade, 10-Inch. x 24 Teeth FTG Grind with 5/8-Inch. Bore, PTFE Coating

    cheers,

    ajw

  12. #11
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    Bundanoon, Southern Highlands
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    Default

    Sometime ago i made 46 same design boxes as a compliment to my sister, she was celebrating a 40th anniversary with her fellow class mates.

    the making was fine until i got to the 36th box, then it became a real bind, never volunteered again
    Tony Ward
    Now a power carver and living the dream.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Default

    Thank you for the work in progress. It is great to read the progress of the boxes you are making.

  14. #13
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    Default WIP - Trio of Boxes Part 4

    Not much to see today.

    First item of business was the glue up. I generally use Titebond, but used a polyurethane glue on the blackwood box this time. I've recently had issues with blackwood getting a greenish tinge when I've used titebond on it. The PU glue foams a little, so it will reveal any gaps in the mitres...

    I use blue tape to hold the pieces in position while the glue sets.

    Img 17 Glue up with blue tape as clamp.jpg


    The lids have had two coats of WOP, so they're somewhat protected at this stage.

    Img 18 Mitres look quite tight.jpg


    To get the base to sit perfectly flat, I use a sanding board. It's just a piece of MDF with wide sandpaper spray-glued to it. Coarse grade on one side, fine grade on the other. Just slide the box around on the board until any unevenness in the base is sanded away.

    Img 20 Sanding board.jpg


    The sides of the boxes have now been sanded at 220, and it's time to put the final profile onto the lid. I want to protect the surface of the lid, so the box sits upside down on a piece of MDF. The MDF slides across the router table, preventing the lid from getting any scratches on it. The router bit is elevated to get the right profile.

    Img 21 Routing lid profile.jpg


    Finally, I add a small shadow line to the base of the box.

    Img 22 Adding a shadow line.jpg


    It's cold here today, so not as much shed time as I had hoped. The fire is too tempting.

    Next step is to fit the splines, and then separate the lid and base.


    Thanks for following along, and thanks also for the comments.


    cheers,

    ajw

  15. #14
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    Default

    Interesting thread! It's always nice to see how someone else approaches a task. (It gives me ideas to steal. I hadn't thought of that way of flattening the bottoms before, for some weird reason.)

    The one thing I've learned from my attempts at similar batches is that it speeds things up enormously... provided that you do everything correctly, in the right order and hold your tongue just so. All it takes is one silly mistake (measure twice, cut once!) to totally ruin your day. eg. You start assembly and discover that three or four steps back you cut a 'minor' rebate 1mm off position... on umpty-something items. Not a fun way to spend a day rectifying the same mistake umpty-something plus times.

    Maybe that's why production shops hire apprentices?
    I may be weird, but I'm saving up to become eccentric.

    - Andy Mc

  16. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!! View Post
    Interesting thread! It's always nice to see how someone else approaches a task. (It gives me ideas to steal. I hadn't thought of that way of flattening the bottoms before, for some weird reason.)

    The one thing I've learned from my attempts at similar batches is that it speeds things up enormously... provided that you do everything correctly, in the right order and hold your tongue just so. All it takes is one silly mistake (measure twice, cut once!) to totally ruin your day. eg. You start assembly and discover that three or four steps back you cut a 'minor' rebate 1mm off position... on umpty-something items. Not a fun way to spend a day rectifying the same mistake umpty-something plus times.

    Maybe that's why production shops hire apprentices?
    Hi Skew, I completely agree. I think if I was making 10 of these, I'd make a prototype first. In this case, it's only 3, so any rectification work would only be minor. I tend to use sketchup to make a complete model before starting, so that I can try to visualise any problems.

    The batch process really is enormously faster, even using different timbers for each box.

    I'm not finished yet, so there is still time for me to stuff this up completely!

    Cheers,


    ajw

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