Thread: CA Glue as a finish??

Hopefully a few woodturners will show up and tell you all about it. You're wasting your time asking me.

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Interesting to read this one by Timbecon:

Your Workshop’s Secret Weapon

Many woodworkers have a secret weapon in their workshop – and it’s not a fancy machine or an heirloom hand plane.

It’s Glue!

Cyanoacrylate glue, to be precise - some call it 'CA glue', some call it 'super glue' - but whatever you call it, it’s a must-have in your woodworking arsenal.

CA glue bonds to almost any material and cures very, very fast, especially when you use the optional accelerator. We’re talking almost instantaneous cure time!

But it’s not just a glue! Many woodworkers are turning to CA as finish. It’s quick to apply, durable, and looks amazing when polished to a high gloss.

Still more woodworkers use CA glue as surface preparation before final finishing, filling pores and imperfections in a fraction of the time taken by other products.

Click the button below to read the full article on how to play the CA glue trump card in your workshop.

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Call me slow but I've never heard of using CA glue as a finish. Whats even more interesting is according to Timbecons statement it can be polished to a high gloss. Has anyone done this?, I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who has.

Sam

Pen turners have been using it as a finish for ages,
Happy too show 100s of pens if you like.[emoji41]

You can get a mirror shine of it, takes a little work but definitely not impossible, but remember on a pen the surface area is quite small, an you only have too move your sandpaper up an down a little bit due too the work spinning.

You just go up through the grits we finish at 12,000 micro mesh than use Auto cut then Auto polish.

You definitely would not want too try an finish a 8 seater table top with it, it would take literally litres of the stuff, an ton of sanding, with an orbital.

Saying all that I’ve often wondered what it would be like on a small flat item,immmmm maybe future project material there.

Cheers Matt.

I've watched many videos where it has been used by guitar makers.

TBH though, using epoxy gives the same result and is a MILLION times easier.

Ive done the epoxy thing on a few boxes. Its quick and easy.

Simplicity is right. For pens it is almost mandatory, plus its dead easy.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

I've watched many videos where it has been used by guitar makers.

TBH though, using epoxy gives the same result and is a MILLION times easier.

Ive done the epoxy thing on a few boxes. Its quick and easy.

Simplicity is right. For pens it is almost mandatory, plus its dead easy.

Yes yes yea Second right this decade, I’m on a roll.[emoji6]


Cheers Matt.

Just wish it glued things together as fast as it glues my fingers to each other!!!!!!

Originally Posted by woodPixel

I've watched many videos where it has been used by guitar makers.

TBH though, using epoxy gives the same result and is a MILLION times easier.

Ive done the epoxy thing on a few boxes. Its quick and easy.

Simplicity is right. For pens it is almost mandatory, plus its dead easy.

I saw a few videos about applying CA.

epoxy yellows over time, but CA (based on what a retired eastman chemist told me) doesn't have a good outlook if it's in contact with moisture. Most guitars doing get moisture contact now, but one played outside definitely will.

And my eyes burn just thinking about filling and then finishing a guitar with CA when much better finishes are cheaper.

Epoxy and CA both make a nice pore filler, though, especially under lacquer if repairing later is important.

I'm pretty sure that one of the videos I saw about a guitar maker fully finishing with CA was put on by one of the sellers of expensive CA glue and tinted repair stuff. Glue boost or something.

there are a bunch of rumors in the US about how CA glue was actually developed, but the person mentioned above told me it was intended to make a canopy material for aircraft, which is how its ability to withstand weather was figured out quickly. He brought that up to me when I mentioned that I was using it for a quick way to put a gloss finish on knife handles. rub layers on, for example, it stays open for a very long time - at least hours or days, unless you spray activator on it. Open meaning you can touch it and it feels dry, but it add more ca on the surface and it will burn in. if you activate it, then you'll end up with witness lines like you would with polyurethane if you sand back through it.

(just tried to find justification for the canopy thing - turns out, it came from eastman. The first link that I found doesn't sound very complete, and also claims that it was too sticky for production use. The actual explanation from an eastman chemist sounds more likely. Anyone ever deal with melted plastic that isn't sticky? any formed item of CA could just be formed with a sacrificial layer and that layer would come off when grinding and polishing to finish. )

I think we need to be careful talking about CA glue being a single product. I suspect that like other adhesives, there are probably many formulations and products based on cyanoacrylic acids. I know that they use a form of CA as a medical adhesive, and have done so since the Vietnam War, and I have been told that CA is the basis for things like Loctite thread lockers.
The properties of each formulation are likely to be very different. On of the main things I use CA for is filling small holes when turning. I overfill the hole with fine sawdust then dribble on thin CA glue. I also use the thicker (medium) formulation for small worm holes etc. But last year I ran out bought a blister pack from one of the big hardware chains. It turned out to be a gel product, and would not work at all for my normal purposes. I also had some black CA a few years ago and found that it remained rubbery even after curing, Quite different to the clear product that I use that is almost brittle when cured.
I cannot comment on the use of CA as a finish on flat projects, such as guitars, but I suspect that the drying time would be a big limitation and would make application tricky over even small areas. I used a but on a camphor laurel bowl the other day and the timber worked as a very effective accelerator. Within two seconds of application it crackled, smoked and set like a rock.
Everything I have seen about CA as an adhesive and as a finish says that it is waterproof. I have a razor kit and shaving brush that I turned about seven years ago. They have been in daily use since then and while they are both covered in soap residue, the finish is unaffected by the constant moisture. (I would take a photo, but they are too disgusting to share in public.)
The largest project that I remember using CA for was a handle for an ice-cream scoop. I think any larger than that might be difficult to apply using the methods I use.
My normal application method is the run the lathe slowly (maybe 100 rpm). I either wet a piece of paper towel and wipe that along the project, or gently dribble a few drops direct on the project and wipe it along the project with a piece of paper towel. You just want a thin smear of product, and re-coat several times. if you lay it on too thick, you can get ridges. In my experience, you can get away without accelerator if you are patient. After application, I apply triple E with the lathe stopped, work in it at slow speed then speed up to buff at high speed.
Bruce

Well from everything I've read its probably only good for small objects like everyone has said. I may give it a go when I next do some finishing.

I use lots of CA as a finish on pens, needle cases, etc, however the CA formulation for the product I use has been developed for that purpose.

CA typically is available in varying viscosity from ultra thin "wicking" grade right through to gel formulations that do not run at all. The formulations are also tweaked for "low odour", and for bonding various substrates from non porous materials like glass & ceramics, through wood etc to rubber, as slow or fast cure etc.

Looking at an SDS for CA glues and also the activators does not give many clues about what is actually in the formulation for either. Many accelerators are acetone propellant based - so a potential fire hazard!

Guilio Marcolongo also uses CA as a finish on turned lidded boxes that are approx 75mm dia. Guilio's techniques is vastly different to mine as he only uses it as basically a pore filler and light coat on woods like Dead Finish, Gidgee etc.

If using CA as a finish you want a formulation that is "runny" and has a reasonable "open time." Typically in my environment I get about 5 to 6 seconds to spread each coat of CA to an even thickness on larger pens & needle cases. Once you go past that "open time" slot the applicator first drags creating uneven ridges then grabs the CA. It is important to apply thin even coats OR you will have lots of sanding to do.

Some brands of CA have a quite short shelf life. The CA and accelerator are known to be sensitizers - I can't use three popular brands due to their formulations, mostly the "fragrance" they use to mask the CA odour. The "off gassing" as the CA cures is quite irritating and can cause lung problems.

One brand that is very good though expensive is ChemTools. A look at their web site will highlight that the old TV advert "Oils ain't oils Sol" also applies to CA products. Instant & UV Adhesives Category | Chemtools(R) Australia

Originally Posted by bruceward51

I think we need to be careful talking about CA glue being a single product. I suspect that like other adhesives, there are probably many formulations and products based on cyanoacrylic acids. I know that they use a form of CA as a medical adhesive, and have done so since the Vietnam War, and I have been told that CA is the basis for things like Loctite thread lockers.
The properties of each formulation are likely to be very different. On of the main things I use CA for is filling small holes when turning. I overfill the hole with fine sawdust then dribble on thin CA glue. I also use the thicker (medium) formulation for small worm holes etc. But last year I ran out bought a blister pack from one of the big hardware chains. It turned out to be a gel product, and would not work at all for my normal purposes. I also had some black CA a few years ago and found that it remained rubbery even after curing, Quite different to the clear product that I use that is almost brittle when cured.
I cannot comment on the use of CA as a finish on flat projects, such as guitars, but I suspect that the drying time would be a big limitation and would make application tricky over even small areas. I used a but on a camphor laurel bowl the other day and the timber worked as a very effective accelerator. Within two seconds of application it crackled, smoked and set like a rock.
Everything I have seen about CA as an adhesive and as a finish says that it is waterproof. I have a razor kit and shaving brush that I turned about seven years ago. They have been in daily use since then and while they are both covered in soap residue, the finish is unaffected by the constant moisture. (I would take a photo, but they are too disgusting to share in public.)
The largest project that I remember using CA for was a handle for an ice-cream scoop. I think any larger than that might be difficult to apply using the methods I use.
My normal application method is the run the lathe slowly (maybe 100 rpm). I either wet a piece of paper towel and wipe that along the project, or gently dribble a few drops direct on the project and wipe it along the project with a piece of paper towel. You just want a thin smear of product, and re-coat several times. if you lay it on too thick, you can get ridges. In my experience, you can get away without accelerator if you are patient. After application, I apply triple E with the lathe stopped, work in it at slow speed then speed up to buff at high speed.
Bruce

I believe all of the glues have the issue with moisture over time that I mentioned, but too, that information came from a chemist about canopies. As you mention in terms of time, I also have knife handles with it on that have gotten sweaty, and i inferred that it's maybe over a longer time or more abuse as I haven't had a problem.

I don't know how much of an issue a light component may be, too (UV), as nothing really tolerates UV forever. My knife handles don't see a lot of daylight.

My wipe on method for knife handles (though it's really better for pore filling, with something else as a top coat in my opinion) is probably a lot like what you describe on a lathe. it communicates with you a little bit. if you're patient, the results are always good. if you get greedy and try to force things, just like with french polish, it will punish you. But it's a much stinkier mess to deal with sanding it off and starting over.

Hi Eager Beaver,

Yes, I’ve used CA glue (Zap brand) to finish boxes. An example is this Macassar Ebony box which called for a very high shine:

IMG_3009.jpeg

CA was used because I felt it gave a ‘closer to the wood’ look than epoxy (my opinion only). My recollection is that it was relatively easy to do using a lint-free cloth shaped like a very small french polishing rubber. The surface was then polished using Festool polishing compounds (just because I had them) but I suspect a decent auto cut and polish product would work as well.

Regards,

Brian

CA is the only finish I use on pens and similar small turned items. I experimented with a couple of other products, but they either did not give the same "glassy" finish as CA or did not cope with regular handling and lost the quality of finish pretty quickly. I have tried CA on some larger items (including a pepper grinder) but found that it dried too quickly for me to get an even application on the larger surface. My "go to" finish for pepper grinders is now Ubeaut EEE cream followed by their Shellawax "Glow". Haven't found anything else that can beat these products on turned items.

Pretty sure CA was basically designed as an emergency wound sealer for the army. Used in the field to seal wounds when there was no availability of stiches, etc. At least that's what I was told in the army.

I did a few turned items with CA about 35+ years ago and found it cracked up and some of it even went powdery after a few years. Admittedly that was a long time ago and it may have changed somewhat since then. Always have a special bottle of it in the fridge at the factory and home, but there are better finishes for pens and bigger objects.

Blatant adverts below
Our Friction Polishes incl Aussie Oil don't crack up over time or go powdery and they build to a brighter durable finish in a much shorter time not only that but they also bring out more light, depth and chatoyance in almost all woods. They are no good at suturing wounds though

Our Hard Shellac is brilliant for Guitars and furniture if you have the ability to French polish and use shellac.

To top it all off... if you're not happy with the shine and want more EEE-Ultra shine should do the job for you really well.

Sorry for the above I just couldn't help myself.

Cheers - Neil

Originally Posted by ubeaut

Our Hard Shellac is brilliant for Guitars and furniture if you have the ability to French polish and use shellac.

I love the Hard Shellac, used it many times and it is definitely harder than regular shellac.

And Neil isn't paying me to post this.

Any chance of a free bottle though Neil?.