Thread: Food safe oil - polish?

The other option is hard shelac ...... shelac is THE original food safe finish ...... was at one time used to cote tablets for medication.

cheers

Originally Posted by rtyuiop

Hi folks,

Anyone have any thoughts on whether a serving board (huon pine and blackwood) would benefit from a hit with a polisher after applying some of our esteemed leader's food safe oil (mineral oil)?

I am hoping for a glossier finish than a cutting board would normally get, as the surface shouldn't get chopped up - just planning to use it for a platter, keeping greasy takeaway containers off the table!

Cheers,

Danny

Hi Danny, This is my FIRST Post here on this forum. So lets see if I do this right )
Anyhoo, I have come from a world the last couple of years, where Mineral Oil is not a safe item to be using. Let me explain. The last couple of years I dove head in, to the Bath and Body works side of the sun. Making all kinds of Soaps, Lotions, Scrubs and more. Hanging out with Essential oils, and oils of all kinds to create SAFE For Skin Items. One of the biggest things I came across in this world of bath products, is that Mineral Oil was NOT to be used and was a NO NO. This is mainly because it is a Petroleum By Product. And so, let me add, that I am a NEWER Woodworker, but for me, the same rule would apply here. If I would NOT put Mineral oil on my Skin or use it for any Safe for Skin products, I would NOT want to place this on my cutting board where my food will come in contact with it. I have been working on using the information I got from the Bath and Body world and have brought it over to the wood working world. I think a person could find safer things to use on a cutting Board, other than a petroleum by product such as Mineral Oil. Just my 2 cents. I hope to showcase a Video on my YouTube channel within the next couple of weeks, that will feature a DIY Finish Conditioner for Food Safe wood items such as Cutting Boards and for me, a Potato Bin. I am totally open to positive feedback. I have been researching things like Lanolin in a combination of possibly Coconut Oil, Walnut Oil, Bee Wax, Lemon Essential Oil, Vitamin E Oil and Rosemary Oil. A Combination that will not go rancid and will be durable enough to condition the wood and making it water repellent. I am still tweaking this and like I said, I hope to make a video soon. So yes, anyone with any additional help or advice, a am more than open to it. And Thank you!! I hope Danny, that maybe I have helped you? I also hope you have the BEST Week Ever!!! If I have not helped, my apologies, as I have tried )
I do know that this does not help your original question and only directly talks about the Mineral Oil part of the conversation within your question. As far as answering your exact question, I do not have an answer to that. I wanted to share with you what I have been learning about Mineral Oil, is all. Again, I hope I helped, at least in part.
WhatMomKnows
YouTube Channel: Know What Mom Knows

Thanks for your input WhatMomKnows - can you tell us specifically what health issues the bath and body folks see from using mineral oil? I am not aware of any substantive evidence it is a problem.

Why so much angst over food safe finishes?

Any sort of half reasonable risk assessment would show that folks should be far more concerned about food storage and management, the cleanliness of cooking and serving equipment and preparation surfaces, and what is in the food they're eating, rather than the finishes that go on platters and chopping/cutting boards.

In Australia

Food poisoning results, on average, in 5.4 million cases a year (including 120 deaths), 1.2 million visits to doctors, 300,000 prescriptions for antibiotics, and 2.1 million days of lost work each year.

See http://www.australasianscience.com.a...poisoning.html

I guess (personally) I think of them as two separate issues Bob. I still try to avoid losing a finger in a horrifying blender accident, despite it probably - admittedly I'm only guessing - being more likely I'll cut one off with a bandsaw!

Originally Posted by rtyuiop

I guess (personally) I think of them as two separate issues Bob. I still try to avoid losing a finger in a horrifying blender accident, despite it probably - admittedly I'm only guessing - being more likely I'll cut one off with a bandsaw!

Given that wood is natural antibiotic with raw wood outperforming virtually all other materials in terms of suppressing bug growth, any illnesses due to wood toxicity combined with the tiny amount likely to be ingested of the wood through use as a serving or cutting board is almost certainly going to be outweighed by its antibiotic property.

Covering up the wood with a finish will reduce its antibiotic property.
Perhaps fortunately for us almost all finishes don't last long if the wooden item is properly washed.

It appears the best thing you can do is use no finish.

Originally Posted by BobL

Why so much angst over food safe finishes?

Any sort of half reasonable risk assessment would show that folks should be far more concerned about food storage and management, the cleanliness of cooking and serving equipment and preparation surfaces, and what is in the food they're eating, rather than the finishes that go on platters and chopping/cutting boards.

Because (my emphasis)

Originally Posted by WhatMomKnows

One of the biggest things I came across in this world of bath products, is that Mineral Oil was NOT to be used and was a NO NO. This is mainly because it is a Petroleum By Product.

and therefore it's not natural, nor organic nor clean and green -- all positive attributes in the world of bath products

When we talk about food safety and general body contact safety ..... we are talking about proven facts and actual reality...... not vage touchy feely natural product hokus pokus.

Clean white mineral oil ( parafin oil) is pretty much inert and inocuous ..... there are many so called "natural" products that are far less healty and suitable for food and bodily contact.

The term " mineral oil" is actually quite misleading ...... unless you believe the conspiracy theorists, so called mineral oil is derived from animal and plant life, it does not come from minerals at all.

There are a number of products that have been proven over many decades, both in practice and by proper scientific testing to be food safe ....... Properly "food safe parafin oil and wax" are just that .... a product that has been specifically manufactured for the food industry ...... both are clean, white ( or clear), pretty much tasteless and non reactive.

The hippies and greenies that want to buy " natural products" simply have a bias against anything man made or mineral, bassed on belief and not facts.

Our esteemed benifcator has done extensive research into the matter ...... look at as many so called natural products ..... there are very few that will stand up to being food safe long term on cutting boards and utensils and most will not come close to comparing with clean white mineral oil intended for the food industry.

look at all those various oils and ingredients in lotions and potions ...... see how many of them you can buy( anywhere anyhow) that are certified food safe and are guaranteed not to taint the food opr degrade and either produce bacterior or harbour it.

cheers

Originally Posted by rtyuiop

Thanks for your input WhatMomKnows - can you tell us specifically what health issues the bath and body folks see from using mineral oil? I am not aware of any substantive evidence it is a problem.

Thank You for your Question! I will first add that I am not a leader in any actual and real knowledge or of any personal scientific experimentation that has to deal with Mineral oil. I will however state that on just about every cosmetic forum I have ever been on, the topic of Mineral Oil has not been a happy topic and has been a disputed one both for the good and the bad that comes by using Mineral Oil. It would seem that the bottom line for me, unless somebody can show me otherwise, that because it is a byproduct of the petroleum process, I would just rather make a better choice for what goes onto my skin and onto my wood projects that will come in contact with food.

About Bobl Statement:
I understand BobL, but I do think that his comment, even tho a good one, is still a separate issue. We could talk all day about food storage and preparation, I am Also a Professional Chef, retired now due to the fact I became Paralyzed in 2012 from an accident, but I believe that could be a conversation for its own topic. I would gladly participate on that topic as well. I too have considered having naked wood, it sure was a thought. But, for me, I have concluded that due to the fact that the wood could possibly break down due to the moisture of the potatoes I would be placing in my Potato Bin, I wanted to protect the wood. I would feel the same way about cutting boards too. Naked would be fine, nothing wrong with that, but I feel that their is also nothing wrong with a little protection of the project with an all natural oil or combination of oils. But good Comment Bob, overall, I enjoyed your read very much )

About Soundman Statement:
Hi Soundman, I am not a greenie or a Hippie (although I do love those cool shirts with all the swirly colors) I am not a Tree Hugger either. I consider myself simply a person who likes to make her food from scratch and when I make wood projects, I like to use oils that are well, not a by product of the gasoline industry. I have not facts to back anything up. You got me, and I will admit that you are totally right that thier IS allot of hokie pokie weirdo stuff out their floating around on the internet. But for me, I must am more sensible and down to earth. If an oil comes from a Tree, bush or nut....I like that. If an oil is created as a by product of some chemical process....ya, not really liking that. So for me, When possible, and I do mean that cause its not always possible, but when possible, I like to use what is considered natural. NOT that it is natural...but more that it is considered natural.

Here is my end of the day thought on this subject of mineral oil. Its not that what you use is any better or worse than what I want to use, I just feel that it might be the RIGHT option for ME. I have given the option to use a natural plant or nut oil based on that fact that I can put this on my skin. I do know that SOME would put mineral oil on the skin. I do not for the reasons talked about here. If my excerpts and following article links can help somebody, great. For me, I have always been more of a DIRer than a Buy it in a Box...er....he he. Nothing wrong with a cake mix that comes from a box...but for me, if I can make a cake without all the additives and chemicals that come in many box cake mixes....I am all in. So, will I eat a cake that somebody made from a box? Yes...and will I eat a sandwich that was made on somebody's cutting board that they coated in Mineral oil? Yes
I am not an extremest, I just look at things and look for the better more natural way to accomplish the same thing that others would do.

Here is a quick Excerpt from an article I found:

"In lay terms, that means that these scientists are concerned that much of the mineral oil we are exposed to on a daily basis does contain contaminants that could affect our health. They’re also stating that this topic has not been sufficiently studied to really put our minds at ease."

The following page LIGHTLY Goes over the topic, and gives 3 key reasons to Avoid Mineral Oil. I can find other sources that back this up, if need be as well:
http://www.drfranklipman.com/3-key-reasons-to-avoid-mineral-oil/

Here is another Excerpt from another sourse:
"Besides clogging your pores, blocking toxic elimination through the skin, and hindering skin cell rejuvenation, all mineral oil derivative can be contaminated with cancer causing PAH’s (Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons). Motor oil is now labeled in California as a carcinogen, and they warn against any skin contact. Mineral oil comes from the same crude oil source."

Here is the link for that excerpt: http://www.oilsofyouth.com/dangers-of-mineral-oil-in-cosmetics/

One More Excerpt...
"Results of scientific research on mineral oil side effects

• The workers in chemical, petrochemical, machine-building, metallurgic and car industries, who are exposed to mineral oil through skin contact and breathing, are significantly more frequently diagnosed with skin cancer.
• An study on 140 women, giving birth by cesarean, shows that mineral oil accumulates in the body over time. The study linked the build up of mineral oil in body tissue to (amongst others) frequent use of sun creams, lipstick and hand creams."

I found that excerpt here: http://www.naturallyorganicskincare....-side-effects/

Now, I understand that NONE of the excerpts listed can be identified as proof. I can not say that their is proof EITHER Way good or bad. But what I can say, is that for me, their is enuf negative talk surrounding Mineral Oil, that I have decided as a NEW Wood worker, I do not want to use it on my safe for food wooden projects such as potato bins and or butcher blocks. Does that mean if you do, that I think you are wrong? Nah...I just think that to each person they need to find what works for them. For ME, I do believe I have found a better way than Mineral Oil. Thank you ALL for your comments. I appreciate them greatly!! Any more? I am loving the conversation on this topic and yes, I am Subject to change my mind on this issue, if somebody can prove otherwise. Thanks

This is what I use for chopping boards: http://foodgradeoils.com.au/product/...e-mineral-oil/

$44 for 5L and $129 for 20L

On the page it blubs about FDA 21 CFR 172.878 which says this https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scrip...cfm?fr=172.878 and http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...fm?fr=178.3620

I'm not a scientist and haven't read these dense texts. But it does say quite clearly it is safe and considered safe to use for food items.

Its soaked in a massive plastic tub for 24 hours then left to drip dry on their side. It has fabulous hydrophobic qualities and repels stains pretty much permanently. A quick wipe with a little bottle of it once a week keeps the board looking nice.

Regarding above, the post says "Motor oil is now labeled in California as a carcinogen, and they warn against any skin contact. Mineral oil comes from the same crude oil source." I happen to know this means USED motor oil. As for "Mineral oil comes from the same crude oil source" so does an absolutely astounding number of products we eat, use, bathe in and apply. Crude oil derivatives have seemingly unlimited applications.

Interesting topic.

addendum/edit: to reduce my ignorance further I had a hunt around. Other than quite a few alarmist crackpots and mummy-bloggers there isn't too much general info (real) that isn't scientific in nature. I did however find this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minera...od_preparation

and I'm waiting for a statement / comment along the lines that natural turpentine is "good" and Mineral turpentine being a product of the petroleum industry is "bad"

A little bit of a red herring, but still related to the topic.

The terms "natural'' and ''örganic" are taken by many to imply that that the product is safe or, at the very least "better".

This is patently codswallop!!

Originally Posted by Evanism

This is what I use for chopping boards: http://foodgradeoils.com.au/product/...e-mineral-oil/

$44 for 5L and $129 for 20L

On the page it blubs about FDA 21 CFR 172.878 which says this https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scrip...cfm?fr=172.878 and http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...fm?fr=178.3620

I'm not a scientist and haven't read these dense texts. But it does say quite clearly it is safe and considered safe to use for food items.

Its soaked in a massive plastic tub for 24 hours then left to drip dry on their side. It has fabulous hydrophobic qualities and repels stains pretty much permanently. A quick wipe with a little bottle of it once a week keeps the board looking nice.

Regarding above, the post says "Motor oil is now labeled in California as a carcinogen, and they warn against any skin contact. Mineral oil comes from the same crude oil source." I happen to know this means USED motor oil. As for "Mineral oil comes from the same crude oil source" so does an absolutely astounding number of products we eat, use, bathe in and apply. Crude oil derivatives have seemingly unlimited applications.

Interesting topic.

addendum/edit: to reduce my ignorance further I had a hunt around. Other than quite a few alarmist crackpots and mummy-bloggers there isn't too much general info (real) that isn't scientific in nature. I did however find this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minera...od_preparation

Super Great Information Evanism!!
I DO believe you have opened a much broader look into Mineral Oil than I have ever found on the topic, and I thank you for that! I did look at your links and I will be doing a video on a natural wood conditioner this week for my Show on YouTube ~Know What Mom Knows, and after reading what you have said along with the others here, I do believe that I WILL be changing some of my original wording on the subject. Yes, I believe that this has been a great conversation. Now, do I still intend to choose a more natural approach to conditioning my wooden projects that will come in contact with food? Yes, and NOT because Mineral is not safe to use, cause infact I have now read so much information on the topic to show that it is infact safe for food, but I will be using a more natural approach due to the other many choices of oils that I have at my disposal to use. I still do think that Mineral Oil is an oil that is a by product, but I no longer will be saying that it is LESS safe to be using due to the fact that right now it would seem as if I have more conclusive information that mineral oil is a product that is considered safe. So, when I do my video I will be stating that my choice to use a more natural approach does not at all mean to imply that Mineral oil or other type manufactured oils are any less effective for doing the same thing, just different. Yes, from what I have read today, it would seem that the bottom line is now that Mineral oil is a safe product and not any less safe or more dangerous than if I used a natural product. Just a different approach. Thank you for bringing this information forward, it was truly helpful indeed )
Yes, many soapers on the forums I have been on WOULD say that Mineral oil is still not the best choice. I would agree with them on that point but NOT on the point that mineral oil is dangerous. If I have OTHER choices like Coconut Oil and bee wax, yes, I would rather stick with that. But now, I would agree that with this new information that I have just read, their is no reason for me to think of Mineral Oil as Dangerous. Also, I understand that my terms of Natural or Organic here for ME, will mean something that is grown from the earth or lived on the earth....meaning, I know a Coconut is grown here and I know that Bees Live here....Therefore, I would choose Coconut oil and BeeWax first over something that was manufactured here or is a byproduct of a chemical process. But ya, after what I have read here today, I am NOT saying that these items are Better than Mineral Oil...just different. I say that now because the information that has been provided to me now, has shown that mineral oil is safe, and is safe enough to be used in many applications from food production, to the items made to be used in our homes, to transportation and to cosmetics and more. I need to conclude this because for now, I do not see any hard science to tell me otherwise. My thought on this may change ofcourse, if new information on the topic will tell me otherwise. And yes, it is TRUE that many of the MOMMY Forums will jump to the quick conclusion that Mineral Oil is bad....and I think mainly due to the fact that it is based on being a byproduct of the Petroleum industry. But THIS Mommy, ya, I think now has a new conclusion on the matter.
Thank you for highlighting those articles Eanism...and I appreciate all the other comments on the subject. This has been really good for me to read and I thank everyone for taking the time to place such wonderful input here.
I appreciate that and all of you greatly. I really am looking forward to finishing up my video now with this great information that has come to light. I am sure many of my Mommy Friends and Soaping/Cosmetic Friends will have a NEW take on some information that has been flying around the forums the last few years. Will they listen? I do not know. But ya, I do see the others side of things a little bit more clearer now and I appreciate that.

The amount of green wash out in the marketplace makes it hard for one to distinguish what is the 'best" product for their use. One can only read and investigate and take the best info as they understand it. "natural" products are not always as safe as one would think and typically petroleum based products require more manufacturing and additives to make them safe.
Why would one want to use "food safe" finishes on timber? A lot has to do with where the product will be used.

If you are making it for yourself and for home use is one thing BUT if it is being sold or used in commercial aspects, then often some sort of "certification" is required.

Funnily enough, there is no Australian standard for food safety for coatings on chopping boards (used in a supermarkets deli department) however due to the certification of food safety from Germany and a full ingredient disclosure the Livos Kunos range have been accepted.
It all comes down to were it will be used...this will dictate your options.