Thread: Oil but glossy plz help

[QUOTE=Timless Timber;1702

How glossy do you want?
I personally can't see your going to get it real glossy, if you sand to 1200 then start at 400 again once you add the oil.....

My 2c[/QUOTE]

Well, you see, you don't do that. You start sanding up to 400 from scratch, then you add the oil and continue sanding as the method says.

Wow wonderful posts after doing extensive research all day and coming now on the forum to post my findings I see posts already written up to what took me all day to find out. Bloody email didn't inform me of new posts.

Firstly I spoke to carba tec and asked them about that photo and the guy said the same thing it's been altered in photoshop, bloody marketers but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

There are three products that will give you that shiny look

1. Tru oil
2. Rustins Teak Oil
3. Rustins Finishing Oil

Now unfortunately the teak and finishing oils I wasn't able to locate in Australia but the tru oil I was and having seen the sample pics posted earlier you just can't get it any better. The fact that I can control the sheen is just perfect. So Tru oil is my choice on this and I feel it will be the one I will use all the time, having said that not everything needs to be shiny only certain products so after having used Watco danish oil for so long I think I will definitely make the switch to Rustins Danish oil. It completely dries in 2 hours so in an 8 hour period I can apply 4 coats. The facts are as they are Danish oil is nothing more than a blend of Boiled linseed oil and varnish something anyone can make up but whatever they put in it to make it dry so quickly I haven't the faintest but it's good news. With Watco sure enough it's dry within 8 to 10 hours but it's not fully cured until a week or sometimes more depending on the humidity which has bitten me several times. This to me has always been a pain and a nuisance.

Lastly another great product I've been using that creates an eggshell appearance is Minwax Antique oil.

Originally Posted by LGS

Well, you see, you don't do that. You start sanding up to 400 from scratch, then you add the oil and continue sanding as the method says.

OK but that's not what the OP wrote that he does, i.e.

I do sand all the way up to 1500 then I changed it to 400 aafter aplying a second coat of danish I would rub it with 400 to build a slurry and work my way up to 2000

Seemed wrong to me!.

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

OK but that's not what the OP wrote that he does, i.e.



Seemed wrong to me!.

Yep...me too!

Sorry for the confusion they were two separate experiements. First experiement I worked it up to 1500 then applied the oil and tried make a slurry with the last grit but the second experiment the last grit used was 400 and worked my way up then

No mention of Livos oil. Its a very high quality german made oil that builds more gloss with more coats. Its also the finish that Bungendore Gallery insists upon. Its very thin when you wipe it on and then buff off after ten/fifteen minutes. Leave a couple of days between coats. Five coats will give you a high gloss. If you want the really shiny gloss you have to go to french polish.

Lol I just noticed I misspelled experiment wrong twice. I will have a look at that oil you mentioned

Ive had a look at livo and I'm very impressed with its finished look at least with what I've seen in the presentation video. I must note there are products out there that give much better results than whats on the shelves of our woodworking stores.
I'm glad we have a forum like this its you guys the hobbyist, professionals who makes this a viable place to source information. It's you the user who has tried and tested many products that make you more knowledgeable than the seller.

Rustins Danish oil I've come to learn has a 4 week curing period yet Rustins claim you can on the lathe use it and wax immediately which surprised me so who to believe I can't say. However Watco apparently has a 5 day curing period 8-10 hr dry time Rustins has a two hr dry time so why if true would it take 4weeks to cure. Rustins also claim that there film is thicker than watco but watco doesn't have a film you can't build one up no matter how many coats you put on it. As an experiment I tried 4 coats on pine with shellac as a sealer mainly to speed things up and i managed to create a film which was disastrous looking. Unless i try Rustins myself i can only speculate between the two different stories I'm getting.

at least for now I'm looking forward in getting the tru oil its expensive though 900ml bottle cost me $50 plus postage so I'm still on the hunt for this perfect oil.

The Material Safety Data Sheet on birchwoodcasey.com lists the ingredients of Tru-Oil as:

>56% Mineral Spirits
<33% "Modified Oil" (whatever that may be )
<11% Linseed Oil - OELs as vegetable oil mist (whatever that means).

http://www.bisley-uk.com/stockimages...CTOA_BCTO3.pdf

There is a spray on aerosol can variety also which has slightly different contents but includes the 3 above - just in different proportions to let it be thin enough to atomize I guess.

Trichloroethylene 50-55%
Propane 11 - 17%
Isobutane 9 - 13%
n-Heptane < 5%
Mineral Spirits** (** = OELs as Stoddard Solvent) < 10%
Modified Oil < 6%
Linseed Oil*** (*** = OELs as vegetable oil mist) < 2%


http://sport.birchwoodcasey.com/file...scontinued.pdf

For what little it's worth.

This "modified oil" seems to be some proprietary oil that Birchwood Casey use....

This exercise reminds me of the great success of the Old US "Snake Oil - "Marvey Mystery Oil" (Coz for about 100 years no one knew the 'Col Sanders secret herbs and spices recipe) until MSDS regulations came into being ad it turned out it was just standard auto trans fluid and turpentine or something equally simple....

It was the original "mechanic in a can" solution, to everything that ailed an automobile and made its "inventor" a wealthy man - until everyone worked out they could make it at home for a mere fraction of the cost!.

Who knows - maybe the modified oil is a form of Tung oil & linseed oil combined? (Sheer speculation on my behalf).

I've seen it suggested that

Linseed, tung and several other oils are drying oils.
Tung may be marginally harder than linseed but neither is particularly hard.
That's why resins are added to oils (then they are called varnishes).
Drying oils will dry, if given the right conditions.
Technically, they absorb atmospheric oxygen which promotes crosslinking (polymerization).
There is an initial period of rapid absorption followed by steady, slow absorption and cross-linking. If the coat is too thick, the surface will begin the absorption/cross-linking and create a barrier that prevents, or dramatically slows, absorption of oxygen below the surface. This results in a soft, uncured film.
There are many thing that are done to promote polymerization, adding driers (typically now cobalt octoate rather than the traditional lead) and starting the cross- linking. This has included boiling-thus "boiled linseed oil" though that may be a bit of a misnomer these days. When oils are partially polymerized they become thicker and require the addition of solvents to make them workable.

And as far as method of application....

1 You will need lemon oil, tru-oil and true-wax. The tru oil and wax can be bought from Birchwood.
You will also need some fine sandpaper and 00 grain steel wool. And some soft rags of course.
2 Evenly sand the existing finish off the timber surface.
3 Clean the dust and dirt off with lemon oil. Be sure to buff all the lemon oil off before moving on.
4 With a soft rag spread an even amount of tru-oil on the surface and let it dry for 10 to 20 min or until REAL sticky.
5 Buff off the tru-oil with 00 Grain steel wool.
6 Buff with soft rag until timber surface is no longer sticky.
7 Apply a large but even amount of tru-wax and let dry for 5 to 10 min.
8 Wipe excess tru-wax off.
9 Vigorously buff the timber surface with a soft rag. You will know by touch when it is done.
10 Let the timber surface cure for one week then repeat process.

and / or this method suggested on a guitar makers forum for necks of guitars (Where you need a smooth non tacky finish to allow the hand to slide up and down rapidly without friction to finger the strings onto the fret boards).

If you are starting with a bare wood neck that's been prepped (by prepped neck, I mean a neck that has been sanded, and whiskered. “Whiskering” is using a damp cloth to raise the grain after which the wood is sanded or steel wooled to remove the "whiskers". I recommend whiskering at least 2-3 times before staining.) , the first thing to do is to stain the wood.

What I use is Stew Macs' vintage amber water based stain. It's able to be adjusted to whatever shade you like very easily. Also, the stain is carried into the grain more deeply because the water doesn't evaporate as fast as alcohol, or oil based stain. This is what gives the grain "pop" you hear about.

Normally I stain, let dry, steel wool the neck with 0000 steel wool, wipe down and stain again. Then LIGHTLY steel wool again just to smooth the wood and remove excess stain from the surface.

After the stain is the color you like you can begin applying the oil. This is done by dipping your finger into the bottle and applying a generous amount to the wood, rubbing it into the wood with two fingers I try to apply enough oil to cover about 3-4 inches at a time. On this first coat you can go fairly heavy with the oil as the neck will drink it in.

Try to work in such a manner as to always be working the fresh oil into the oil you just rubbed in, smoothing and blending it together so there is no seam between the two areas. When rubbing in the oil try to be brisk so the oil heats slightly from the friction.
When the neck has been covered let it sit for several hours, or until it is no longer tacky, at which time you repeat the process. You'll find that after about three coats the oil will begin to build, and less oil will be needed to coat the neck.

Steel wool the neck lightly, after about four coats, just to create a nice smooth surface for the next coat. I usually apply 7-8 coats and after the final coat I let the neck sit overnight to allow the oil to harden.

When the oil feels dry and hard I very lightly steel wool the finish until it's no longer shiney. Try not to remove a lot of the finish, just burnish it to remove the high gloss shine. let the neck sit for an hour or two and then use a clean cloth ( Old denim or T-shirt cloth works well) to buff the neck up and down fairly fast and you will bring the finish to a nice sheen!

This finish will be fast, but, it will get even faster as it cures, say a week or two. I try to finish the neck on a guitar first so that when the body is ready the neck will be well cured and feel as though it has been played for ten years!

Hope that's of some more help perhaps.

I watched several videos of this guitar maker demonstrating watco danish oil and now the tru oil. With the tru oil he didn't do any of that stuff written he just applied it waited two hrs gave it a light sand then waited another two and this time barely scratching the surface with sand paper and gave it another coat. I cant remember whether it was two or three coats but the results were just what I'm looking for.

last night i purchase livo and am looking forward in giving that a go. Im determined to find the right oil for me.

Remember that ad oils ain't oils.

Thanks for the info that was great btw i already knew the ingredients on how to make danish oil one day i just might give it a go

After having received the Livos It's nice but expensive. This morning I put on my second coat a sheen is already developing the wait time is between 12-24hrs you only need to steel wool it on the second and three to four coats are recommended. The draw backs are the smell it's not a loud smell but you couldn't coat the inside of cabinets or drawers much like danish oil.. It's also a little to thick I would recommend thinning if applying by hand with a bio thinner unfortunately you can't use any other type of thinner. Kind of gotcha by the manfacturer. 250ml cost me $32, 5 litres is about $400+ a little way over my budget honestly I don't see why it should cost that much. I've applied it to western red ceder it darkened the timber way too much for my liking, I haven't tried it on pine or anything else as yet.

I've spoken to Minwax and they claim they have tung oil finish which leaves a glossy surface if it's anything like minwax poly it won't leave a nice finish. Arm a seal which isn't vailable here is supposed to leave a very nice finish it's spoken o much by the woodwhisperer and others. I haven't received tru oil yet and am looking forward in giving it a go, if all these oils fail to give me the look I want I guess I will just end up going back to poly.

Originally Posted by LGS

Is this what you mean. The result in the "tray" with the fiddle back book match?

I get that daily using the method I detailed, but using Tung Oil, HBO or Scandinavian Oil

Regards,

Rob

Sorry Rob I missed your post.

That's the look I'm getting now with what I normally use but I'm after a higher sheen than that. It needs to be some where between high sheen and gloss not semi gloss but a tad bit higher than semi gloss.

Maybe try a little citrus turps as thinner with the livos. Do a test and tell us all if it works. It really is a bit much the prices they charge for the made in germany thinner.

Well I got a call this morning from the distributor and she recommends not to thin itas it will ruin the waxes in it, she also those who have thinned reverted back to the viscosity. So far with this secod coat only small significant improvement in the sheen. We'll see if the results are better tomorrow, the ingredients in Livos is 100% natural so natural they claim a baby can put a finished piece in it's mouth. I can't brush it off yet it does have a pleasing unique look to it alot nicer.