Thread: what oil that does not leave cloudy marks on dining table?

Originally Posted by AlpineRaven

What type oil or stuff that you can apply on the dining table that does not leave white cloudy marks if accidentally placed on the dining table?

There seems to be a contradiction in terms there AP. I suspect you may mean what oil finish will protect the table from going cloudy if other substances accidentally get on there?

Hard Burnishing Oil seems to be very popular. (burnished in with a sander from ~400g up to wherever you want to finish for gloss level)

So Brett suggests HBO (Hard Burnishing Oil) It certainly fits the bill. Actually you don't just pour it on the piece and start sanding at 400 through to whatever grit you want.

However, it is relatively easy and gives a beautiful result that is heat resistant and also has high resistance to liquids. Hot and cold.

If you follow the method suggested in this thread, you should get a very nice result.

You can message me if you would like some more help. I also suggest that you change "location" to something a little closer to where you actually live.The "where" bit helps people to give more relevant advice.

Regards,

Rob

AP,

As an alternative to Hard Burnishing Oil (which will need a random orbit sander that is safe to use with the oil), I'd recommend Ubeaut's Hard Shellac. Once fully cured and cross-linked (about 3 weeks), it is very hard, and resistant to water, wine, and alcohol. I normally spray it, but it also goes on easily using either a good quality natural bristle brush, or a lint free cloth pad.

It does dry with a gloss finish, but can be rubbed back to a satin or matt finish, provided you do the rubbing back within a day or two of applying the finish. Within a day or few of application, it can be rubbed back as easily as ordinary Shellac. But if left too long after application - i.e. once the cross-linking has occurred - trying to rub back the finish to a satin or matt will be a much harder job.

The other advantage of doing the rubbing back one or two days after application is that if you rub back too far and don't like what you've got, you can simply apply another coat of hard shellac, and start the rub back again. I usually rub back with 1200 wet and dry (lightly lubricated with Turps), and once I've achieved the surface finish I want, I then use an automotive swirl remover to polish out any sanding marks. That's how I do it - but then there seems to be many ways of applying shellac (ordinary or hard shellac) so other people may have alternative approaches that will also work.

Product's Web Page: HARD SHELLAC - New improved formula finish.

Product's Info Sheet: http://www.ubeaut.com.au/pdf/no12.pdf

Regards,

RoyG

Thank you guys - it has narrowed down to what I could try on - Will get it and pour it on sample piece (off cut pieces) before final.
I'm from Melbourne (west near Werribee if that helps)
Cheers
AP

Dummies question. I have never really understood the concept of wet and dry sanding but assumed one was just sanding and the other sanding with the oil or whatever was your protectant soaked into the sand- paper (but I made this idea up to be honest.). I am now very confused by your reference to " I usually rub back with 1200 wet and dry (lightly lubricated with Turps)" and wondered if you could describe the process- and feel free to overwork the exercise

Originally Posted by WaggaSteve

Dummies question. I have never really understood the concept of wet and dry sanding but assumed one was just sanding and the other sanding with the oil or whatever was your protectant soaked into the sand- paper (but I made this idea up to be honest.). I am now very confused by your reference to " I usually rub back with 1200 wet and dry (lightly lubricated with Turps)" and wondered if you could describe the process- and feel free to overwork the exercise

First of all, "wet & dry" abrasive paper is a specific type of paper. If you try wet sanding with ordinary "sand paper", it won't usually work - the ordinary sand paper will usually fall apart. Wet & Dry paper is usually marked "wet & dry" (or similar wording) on the back of the paper and/or on the packet. In Australia, it is most commonly black in colour and I believe that the abrasive is usually carborundum, but someone with more abrasives related knowledge may be able to provide better info. Most hardware stores will stock it. The "wet & dry" aspect of the name simply refers to the fact that the abrasive paper can be used wet or dry - i.e. the paper backing and glue won't dissolve when it is wet with whatever you use as a lubricant.

The purpose of using a lubricant when wet sanding is to use the liquid to lubricate the surface, carry away the abraded material as a slurry, and to get a finer polish on the surface. I have read often that the slurry that forms when wet sanding also acts as an even finer abrasive and helps to get an even finer finish - BUT that bit of information may be an urban myth.

So, normal wet sanding (as described here) is simply a way of getting an extra smooth surface on a finish. The wet sanding with fine abrasive papers always follows your usual dry sanding (or hand scraping, or other alternative technique) using courser abrasives.

People use all sorts of lubricant liquids when they wet sand something. As an example, someone who is wet sanding car body filler, will usually use water as the lubricant.

When you choose the lubricant, you need to choose something that is compatible with the finish that you're wet sanding. If you were wet sanding a Shellac finish, it would be a complete failure if you tried to use methylated spirits as the wet sanding lubricant. That's why I choose to use Mineral Turpentine as the lubricant when I wet sand a shellac finish - it works for me. I also use mineral turpentine when wet sanding oil based poly urethane or water based polyurethane finishes - but note that it is essential to wait a few days to ensure that both types of Poly Urethane finish have properly cured before using mineral turpentine on the surface. I have successfully used water as the lubricant when wet sanding both types of Poly Urethane finish, but find that mineral turpentine seems to work better for me.

The only time that I have used an oil (i.e. plain old Linseed Oil, or pure Tung Oil) as the lubricant when wet sanding, is when I am using that oil as the finish, and for me that has been on wood turnings. The wet sanding with the oil was done whilst turning on the lathe. Hand wet sanding with oil on something like a table top, would probably be possible, but it would be a huge lot of effort.

So - some people also advocate machine wet sanding with an oil (Organoil HBO is I believe one favourite product for this purpose) as the finish for furniture etc. They use various terminology to describe their technique, with Oil Burnishing (or words along that line) being the terminology used. You'll find numerous posts on this forum about that process, with one furniture maker (whose forum name escapes me at the moment) who has made many posts advocating his preferred oil burnishing process. I have zero experience with these oil burnishing techniques using Organoil products, so I can't provide any further info in that regard. Note that Organoil HBO has hardeners etc added to it, so it is not a pure oil; chemically more like a varnish.

The other trap for young players, is that finish manufacturers tend to use the word "Oil" to describe a huge variety of finishes. As a result, woodworkers use the word "Oil" to describe a huge variety of different finish products. One classic example of a vague use of the word "oil" is in the products marketed with the name "Danish Oil", which is usually a blend of an oil based varnish, and turps. So when someone uses the word "oil" to describe the finish that they are using, it pays to ask them the name of the product, so you can get a better idea of what type of finish they are actually using, which may effect your decisions regarding how you would apply that product.

If you want to understand a lot more about; finishing techniques including; finish application, preparing to apply finish including wet sanding, understanding what the different types of finishes actually are, and some of the misleading marketing that is done by finish companies, I recommend the following book; Flexner On Finishing, by Bob Flexner. The book is available as a PDF download from the Popular Woodworking bookshop. Bob Flexner also writes regular finishing columns for Popular Woodworking Magazine.

There you go - I think I've done enough to "overwork the exercise" as you suggested .......

Regards,

RoyG

One of the other written resources frequently recommended on these forums is the book by Neil Ellis. A Polisher's Handbook. Unfortunately, it is currently out of stock and being revised but is due to be re-released "mid-year 2016" so should not be far away. This is the link A Polishers Handbook

Earlier editions of the book are sometimes sold on the forums or an inquiry on the Marketplace may winkle one out for you - even if only to borrow from another forumite near you.