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18th May 2009, 10:14 AM #46Member
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It's only a matter of time until we see an explosion on the guitar front RE: the use of Australian tone woods. If Blackwood grew in huge amounts in the USA and Spruce grew by the boat load in Australia, luthiers would be buying Blackwood from the USA and here in Australia we'd be trying to promote the use of Spruce. It comes down to what has been used more in the last few hundred years because it was available to the builders at the time and therefore became the norm, the standard. I wonder how many luthiers were building great string instruments in Australia 100 years ago compared with the USA, Europe etc. One thing that will always bother me is the notion of someone choosing tone wood from overseas because it's cheap. It's cheap for a reason, there's mountains of it, and it's the accepted "norm". I wonder how people would go advertising a......... 'Fine Hand-Made Instrument of Exceptional Quality, made from the cheapest and most common wood I could get my hands on"
Now there's a sales pitch to impress people with.
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18th May 2009, 10:48 AM #47
My apologies there Bob I will need to cancel that order as I thought it was $12.50 per cubic metre. Never would I have guessed you would sell pallet wood at 3- 4 times the price of blackwood.
I don't see any need to correct you Bob but you seem to have misunderstood my point. There is no Australian wood that I find suitable as a replacement for rock maple, that includes the types you have suggested here. They just do not have the same aesthetic appeal or mileage. Also density is not always a issue to me, I have just made a blackwood neck (see my thread entitled "a most excellent tool") and have several blackwood blanks ready for future builds, it is more stable and better to deal with than rock maple but is not a replacement, merely a different choice.
Jim
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18th May 2009, 10:57 AM #48Retired
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18th May 2009, 12:23 PM #49
Thats a strange thing to say Ghost. I buy alot tonewood from overseas and I can tell you its not cheap..even without freight factored in. As for there being mountains of ths stuff....I would debate this one as well. Indian Rosewood is still readily available but the quality isnt as good as it was in the past and a decent (at least 3A grade) back and side set is going to set you back at least $Aus120.
For the record I use imported Englemann, Sitka and Lutz spruce tops on my guitars because I cant find local wood of comparable properties (ie light and stiff) here in Australia. With back and side sets I have more options and generally have a fair bit of Australian wood in my shop...my favourite is Tassie Blackwood. That said I still prefer to work with Indian Rosewood....partly personal preference but its also an easy wood to work with and asthetically it goes nicely with alot of other woods.
Cheers MartinWhatever note you blow youre never more than a semitone away from the correct one....(Miles Davis)
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18th May 2009, 12:31 PM #50
Me personally I think some of the sitka deck quality AAA or optimum grade or whatever is a bit boreing with it's uniform tight grain patterns I would like something for my next build with a bit of character good sound but with some nice blemishes or markings to give the eye something to get caught by. I dont know about you guys but for me it is the well made guitars that look odd or different that i remember the looks of
Richard
vini vidi vici
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18th May 2009, 12:47 PM #51
I rank tonal and physical properties over asthetics when chosing my top woods. As stated above my top wood has to be light and stiff. Heavy floppy tops end up sounding like a piece of cardboard. Heavy and stiff plywood tops also sound dead..check out a cheap ply topped Chinese import and see what Im talking about.
I generally use 3A grade tops.....they're generally light and stiff but there is also a bit of variation in tightness of the grain across the top and occasionally minor defects (usually outside working area of top).
Note that Im talking about acoustics here....knots and other defects are perfectly ok on an electric as structural integrity of the guitar is less reliant on properties of the blank you start with.Whatever note you blow youre never more than a semitone away from the correct one....(Miles Davis)
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18th May 2009, 02:19 PM #52
Yes kiwigeo thats what im afraid of using something that doesnt have that ring to it when struck even before cutting your shape
Is there no agent that helps rigidity without loss of tone?? excuse me if this is a dumb question but im learning LOLRichard
vini vidi vici
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18th May 2009, 02:22 PM #53Retired
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18th May 2009, 03:41 PM #54
Apart from the inherent physical properties of the wood the only other things you can play with is bracing and also building with the top arched to introduce a bit of stress.
Boiled down to basics making a good top is a play off between making the top thin enough so its going to vibrate relatively freely but not so thin that it buckles under string tension.
A good light stiff piece of spruce to start with means you can work down fairly thin and maintain structural integrity without having to go heavy on your bracing. There are no magic formulas in working out final thickness of your top and the final bracing. I tap my top as Im raw thicknessing it but I also keep in mind the fact that once bracing is attached and the top is attached to the sides its no longer going to be functioning as a free plate. To free up my tops a bit I thin towards periphery of the top around the lower bout and waist area. Again there are not fixed figures I use....I tap and flex the top as Im doing the final working with a cabinet scraper.Whatever note you blow youre never more than a semitone away from the correct one....(Miles Davis)
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18th May 2009, 03:44 PM #55
Ive got some celery top amongst my wood stocks but havent yet had a chance to build anything with it. Its not bad looking wood but in its raw state tonally it just doesnt compare with the Englemann and Lutz Ive used on recent builds. The Englemann Im using right now is from BC and straight out of the packet it rings like a Chinese gong.
Whatever note you blow youre never more than a semitone away from the correct one....(Miles Davis)
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18th May 2009, 04:06 PM #56
Oh the decisions of it all,,,, Lol thanks guys for the help I suppose it is like everything it comes down to personal tastes & preferences there is no hard & fast,,,,,,,,, that a good thing for me
Richard
vini vidi vici
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18th May 2009, 04:30 PM #57Retired
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Australian Timbers Suitable as Tone Woods
Hi Martin, A few of my customers have built with Celery and love the look of it, it turns a beautiful melow yellow as it ages Just made me remember a song from my younger days. They call me mellow yellow. And I note some of the guys in the A.N.Z forum have used it. and I suppose you would brace it different to the spuces.
Regards Bob
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18th May 2009, 10:51 PM #58Member
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I have to tell you guys this story from today...I think it says a few things. I'd finished recording a track tonight, was playing it back to start mixing, a good mate, a guitarist of some 20 years dropped by...."well give us a listen then he says".... we get half way through the track and as he looks at the two Maton six strings he remarks, "which one did you use on this track?"....I stopped the track and laughed...he said "whats funny"....I walked out to the lounge room, came back and handed him a $50.00 K-mart kids steel string acoustic that I'd bought ..."Here, I said....sounds alright doesn't it"...the look on his face was priceless.
Now, I'd bought that guitar to play a joke on a friend, which worked quite well I must say..but the thing was, once we'd stopped laughing...we decided to put a decent set of strings on it and it sound o.k....thats when I decided to record with it just to hear what the result might be.
So can you tell the difference between a Maton six string worth $1500.00 and a K-mart kids acoustic with a decent set of strings valued at $50.00....? No. Not when recorded you can't.
Shocked...? I am.
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19th May 2009, 12:34 AM #59Senior Member
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19th May 2009, 12:48 AM #60
Can't say Matons set me on fire..I'd probably prefer the sound of the K mart dunger
Whatever note you blow youre never more than a semitone away from the correct one....(Miles Davis)
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