Thread: CNC or Not?

It's still tax deductible!
Anything in the arts is tough at the moment and it was always tough in the music industry. Most of the people I know in the industry do it for love and lifestyle but all of them supplement their income in other industries.

CNC would be a great asset in the future and now is the time to become proficient and comfortable with it.

Yes, every drawing you do starts out with 3d modeling Software it takes time and frustration to learn and start out but many people are doing it.

Business overheads should always be considered including electricity.

Solid works is common and pretty damn powerful... You will have to factor the cost of that in. There are heaps to look at and I'm sure some guys here can advise you on which ones to look at. I started in rhino cad and moved over to solid works. I found the tutorials on solid works very helpful.

Good luck

If your doing it for your own enjoyment and learning, go for it.

If your doing it do make an income. Forget it.

Purchasing it, is not a tax deduction, you need to earn 20k minimum from your business in a financial year before you can claim the purchase as a tax deduction, and if you dont have a business yet and this is a side line gig, I highly doubt you will qualify.

Thanks for all your great replies people, very helpful indeed,just be certain again, i wouldn't start a business out of it, i am a second year apprentice cabinet maker, joiner and shopfitter, i love doing that and don't plan on giving it up, i found building guitars to be very exciting however, to start with timber and build something from it like a guitar just seems incredible in so many ways, I'm not sure exactly why but it just does, and it's just something i enjoy doing in my free time... However, as i don't have unlimited storage availabilities, i would have to sell eventually, and even if it took a couple of months and i only made $1 from it, i see a greater satisfaction building it, and i would see to it before it ever left the spray booth at work that if would have my name on it, just seems like a great feeling to know someones using a guitar with your name on it

Anyway, don't want to bore you guys so thanks again for all your helpful response, it sure has helped in my decision making

David...

Originally Posted by dlannetts

Thanks for all your great replies people, very helpful indeed,just be certain again, i wouldn't start a business out of it, i am a second year apprentice cabinet maker, joiner and shopfitter, i love doing that and don't plan on giving it up, i found building guitars to be very exciting however, to start with timber and build something from it like a guitar just seems incredible in so many ways, I'm not sure exactly why but it just does, and it's just something i enjoy doing in my free time... However, as i don't have unlimited storage availabilities, i would have to sell eventually, and even if it took a couple of months and i only made $1 from it, i see a greater satisfaction building it, and i would see to it before it ever left the spray booth at work that if would have my name on it, just seems like a great feeling to know someones using a guitar with your name on it

Anyway, don't want to bore you guys so thanks again for all your helpful response, it sure has helped in my decision making

David...

G'day David,
I too want to make guitars and sell them. I know there is no way we can compete (in the short term) with the cheap imports or even Maton & Cole Clark for that matter.
What you/we need to do is find a market Niche AKA Unique Selling Point.

As we are in Oz, it seems silly to import timbers from the US or blanks from China. We have amazing tonewoods in Australia, you just have to find them and work out a good price.

As for parts such as bridges, tuners, nuts etc. we can compete by importing the same parts as the big companies use.

I think that if one was to establish a guitar manufacturing business that worked on a Made-To-Order basis you could eventually make a name for yourself and eventually have a profit margin.

In the short term the Unique Selling Point would have to be something like "All Aussie Timbers" or "Made to Order" etc, etc. and priced high ie. around the $2,000+ mark. This way you would cover your costs (not labour) and would have fun doing it. You would deffinately need to have a day job though.

I am gathering parts & equip. to build a few guitars ATM for personal use and for family & freinds to use also.

It's a wonderful dream so don't give up on it. Just go a bout it logically and financially safely.


Will

8 years into full time guitar building, and Im only just seeing the income I think I deserve. Ive had some amazing good fortune, and some fantastic opportunities to get my brand out there. I gave up a great trade, and even better "sideline" income, to do this. Worth it? YES. Hard? YES

Getting work has never been an issue for me. Getting past the tyre kickers to do some actual paid work has taken me way too long to figure out. Marketting yourself as a 'made to order' I think means you need to be comfortable making those made to order guitars. Advertise yourself like that, and people will expect you can do it. Most can't. You're not going to get jobs building tele's or strats (at least I dont) for Fender USA money. Marketting yourself as "Aussie timbers only" only limits your potential, because ultimately people go with what they know. Five years ago I couldnt sell ANYONE tassie blackwood. Now it is definately a requested item... but the other Aussie timbers?? Never get asked...

Find what YOU are comfortable with, and excel. If that's building strats, so be it. If it's building fanned fret eight strings, or replacement parts, so be it, but its got to be what YOU are interested in. I won't build a guitar for someone else, unless I would LOVE to own that guitar myself. I think that shows in not only your workmanship, but your passion, and job satisfaction. And when it comes down to it, for me at least, job satisfaction is much more important to me than $$$.

Originally Posted by willcall

G'day David,
I too want to make guitars and sell them. I know there is no way we can compete (in the short term) with the cheap imports or even Maton & Cole Clark for that matter.

Honestly, the first thing people ask me when starting out is "How do we compete against china/maton/fender/etc"?

Simple. You don't. Gibson doesnt compete against Fender. You either want a Strat, or you want a Les Paul. No one tosses up which one to buy, they just buy the one they want. Same as China. Chinese guitars are no competion. People are buying them on price. Don't build guitars for a 'price', because you won't win. Build for features and quality. Buyers will find you, because they are searching for something that isnt available. That might be colour, woods, tone, feel, looks, layout, etc. Otherwise, why get a custom guitar?

No one NEEDS a Ferrari. But how good does it feel to lust after, and maybe own one. Create a 'dream' for someone. Give them NO CHOICE, but to desire your products, and include the purchasing of one as a dream come true.

Wow, thank you rhoads, that's excellent insight. I do understand that nothing ever comes easy so i am prepared to work for what i want.

"I won't build a guitar for someone else, unless I would LOVE to own that guitar myself." I couldn't agree more with this, instead of selling customs (as you said, there's a lot more to this than what is usually considered) i thought i could just sell standard guitars that i could make over and over, and I'm at that point where i might build the same guitar 3 or 4 times until I'm happy with it, until i look at it and say it's perfect for me and my high standards.

And it's this reason that i believe i could start my own 'name around town', i could choose to produce crappy products have a few people buy them and regret it, or produce something second to nothing, have a few people buy it, and HOPEFULLY spread the name or continue to buy my product.

Price is something that's never worried me, if I'm paying a lot for a guitar, i would expect it to be it to be good, and if your one of those people that want everything cheap, you'll buy a cheap guitar and it'll play like #### for you. I'm a total believer in 'you pay for what you get' at the end of the day, i will produce a good product (in my eyes) and if someone chooses to purchase a cheaper product so be it, i will still be happy to know that even though i didn't sell, i've still got the better product. In saying this i doubt i'll ever compete against Gibson, Fender, Ibanez, etc in quality (or maybe price), but in that case, as you said rhoad, it will come down to design and features.

Thanks again for your helpful answer,
David...

Originally Posted by dlannetts

...until i look at it and say it's perfect for me and my high standards.

If you can make a perfect guitar, your standards aren't high enough.

I'd say you're looking into the words to much and not the message I'm trying to pass along...

But yes, i see what you're saying...

Originally Posted by dlannetts

I'd say you're looking into the words to much and not the message I'm trying to pass along...

well, either way, it's a good attitude to have

Thanks again for your message earlier, it's really got me thinking, it might have been just what i was looking for, i have definitely decided against a cnc for now however, i enjoy my handmade work a lot more...

David...

Originally Posted by dlannetts

Thanks again for your message earlier, it's really got me thinking, it might have been just what i was looking for, i have definitely decided against a cnc for now however, i enjoy my handmade work a lot more...

David...

I bought a CNC in September, although I havent even plugged it in yet. I had a bunch of prospective and current clients email and call, begging me not to go down the CNC path. Hell, even copped a bit of flak on facebook and a forum or two. Ultimately, it is the way to go. Just working out the ratio of machine grunt work to hand work, and educating clients about the benefits, is where it's at.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lut...ting-read.html

This is worth a read. Ron Thorn from thorn guitars breaks down what is done by hand vs cnc in his factory. I don't understand people's dislikes to cnc. U can't get more accurate. Perry, I'm sure with such an busy company like yours, with a decent waiting list, it would be a godsend to have a cnc running.

Hmm, that's a very interesting article Floody.

I'm investing in a a block of land and a shed at the moment, hope to own my own cnc one day, as said in that article it would be fantastic for accuracy and inlays too. But i still need the basic machinery (bandsaw, thicknesser, my own router bench, spindle sander, etc.) before i go buying the big stuff.

David..