Thread: Interesting comment from Vai.

Sorry about the late reply, I have just got home from the other end of the state its been a long day. But I managed to get some nice quilted myrtle also fiddleback blackwood, but I don't know why I bothered when everyone is now contacting me for flamed MDF & Tiger MDF.
As for Perry Question below, do I have proof well Perry I take note of what friends like Andrew Morrow CSIRO timber division who did a report on the properties of Australian timbers suitable as tone woods. The Density plus Sound velocity chart is on my website Tasmanian species only.
Plus I take note of Friends like Rick Turner & other luthiers I knew quite well. And at no stage Perry do I claim to know it all, unlike some people. At the ripe young age of 62 I still have allot to learn.
As for comments made by Martin ( Kiwigeo ) who I have allot of time for and respect (Soundwaves do actually travel faster through denser substances and that if concrete did not have too many air spaces, sound in theory would travel faster through concrete.
Now to me this is why certain timbers are used for musical instruments because they are dense. In all honesty I don't think there is going to be a mad rush for concrete or MDF guitars, flutes. or for that matter bagpipes.
Cheers & best regards Bob

Originally Posted by rhoads56

I say you are WRONG

Why would they?? Have you got proof??

Originally Posted by woodturner777

Sorry about the late reply, I have just got home from the other end of the state its been a long day. But I managed to get some nice quilted myrtle also fiddleback blackwood, but I don't know why I bothered when everyone is now contacting me for flamed MDF & Tiger MDF.
As for Perry Question below, do I have proof well Perry I take note of what friends like Andrew Morrow CSIRO timber division who did a report on the properties of Australian timbers suitable as tone woods. The Density plus Sound velocity chart is on my website Tasmanian species only.
Plus I take note of Friends like Rick Turner & other luthiers I knew quite well. And at no stage Perry do I claim to know it all, unlike some people. At the ripe young age of 62 I still have allot to learn.
As for comments made by Martin ( Kiwigeo ) who I have allot of time for and respect (Soundwaves do actually travel faster through denser substances and that if concrete did not have too many air spaces, sound in theory would travel faster through concrete.
Now to me this is why certain timbers are used for musical instruments because they are dense. In all honesty I don't think there is going to be a mad rush for concrete or MDF guitars, flutes. or for that matter bagpipes.
Cheers & best regards Bob

So, in amongst all the name dropping and product placement, did you answer the question? Or did your answer contradict your original statement?

I dont think anyone here is claiming they know it all, but you seem to keep implying that.

Perry, I am not name dropping I am just stating the facts from some of the people I know, and as for product placement I also promote Mainland timbers to be used as tone woods, but I don't sell Mainland timbers.
As for answering the question, I though I had done that try reading what I wrote slow that might help. As for comment anyone claiming they know it all.
Think what you want. I believe I have answered the question as best as I can.
I just love this forum its so much fun.
Cheers Bob

Originally Posted by rhoads56

So, in amongst all the name dropping and product placement, did you answer the question? Or did your answer contradict your original statement?

I dont think anyone here is claiming they know it all, but you seem to keep implying that.

Oh well, the upshot of it all is well established. Everyone realises and agrees you can build a guitar out of just about anything, especially an electric. Then it just comes down to looks and finish, natural,stain or paint. Then I guess it comes down to a favorite species (personal choice) and somewhere in there comes price and availablility.

Having said that, for electric guitars, your end product is only going to sound as good as your pickups and amp, i.e - you could build an electric from the rarest most beautiful and stunning wood, put cheap pickups in it and it will look awesome and sound really bad.

And lastly, for acoustic and electric, any instrument really, no matter the species or cost, they are only as good as the person playing them, what they are made from in that scenario will never be a factor.

Well Ghostguitarist I will have to agree, to disagree.
Ok you can build a electric guitar out of concrete, MDF, plastic, chipboard or what ever you want, but to me Wood is easier to carve and form & shape.
Timber is a natural materail, which is naturally renewable as a resource.
It is probably the most versatile materail known to man, it has a high strength to weight ratio. Wood is aesthetically pleasing with totally natural characteristics and a multitude of beautiful colours, textures, properties and strengths which have never been successfully copied with modern materails.
Having falling in love with working with timber at woodwork at school age 12, 50 years ago, I will keep working with wood thanks and I am sure my customers will also.
Cheers Bob

Originally Posted by GhostGuitarist

Oh well, the upshot of it all is well established. Everyone realises and agrees you can build a guitar out of just about anything, especially an electric. Then it just comes down to looks and finish, natural,stain or paint. Then I guess it comes down to a favorite species (personal choice) and somewhere in there comes price and availablility.

Having said that, for electric guitars, your end product is only going to sound as good as your pickups and amp, i.e - you could build an electric from the rarest most beautiful and stunning wood, put cheap pickups in it and it will look awesome and sound really bad.

And lastly, for acoustic and electric, any instrument really, no matter the species or cost, they are only as good as the person playing them, what they are made from in that scenario will never be a factor.

I absolutely agree with what you're saying here Bob ... and not one word of it relates to the sound that is eventually produced.

We all know that if use decent pickups and strings; get your setup correct; and tune it properly ... you'll get a great sounding guitar. Any of us here can do that. Even Floody!! ( ... only joking mate!).

But it's the wood, the build, and the execution that excites each of us. Beautiful woods, creative cuts and carves, exceptional finishes, a bit of innovation ... that's the kind of p0rn that excites you and me and the rest of this group.

And that's why I usually hold back on the tone debates. If we saw guitars as precise scientific instruments, we'd build them in a consistent and certain way to get precise tone and sustain outcomes. And none of us is remotely interested in that (are we ). But I think most of that is debatable cr@p that only influences at the margins in any case.

Thank goodness for beautiful woods ... creative minds ... and the rabble that frequents this forum!!



NOW WHERE'S MY FLAMED MDF BOB?!?!?

Originally Posted by woodturner777

Well Ghostguitarist I will have to agree, to disagree.
Ok you can build a electric guitar out of concrete, MDF, plastic, chipboard or what ever you want, but to me Wood is easier to carve and form & shape.
Timber is a natural materail, which is naturally renewable as a resource.
It is probably the most versatile materail known to man, it has a high strength to weight ratio. Wood is aesthetically pleasing with totally natural characteristics and a multitude of beautiful colours, textures, properties and strengths which have never been successfully copied with modern materails.
Having falling in love with working with timber at woodwork at school age 12, 50 years ago, I will keep working with wood thanks and I am sure my customers will also.
Cheers Bob

Hi Dadovfor, I am sitting here in front of my computer reading your post and I seen you ask where is my flamed MDF I fell off my chair laughing.
Sorry mate I have not managed to find a bigger enough log yet in flamed but I am on the look out, plus I have Scouts out in the bush all over Tasmania looking for that special flamed MDF. You will be the first one I contact once I find it.
As for this tone debate, I can understand why you dont get involved but me I just love abit of a stir keeps me young.
Cheers Bob.

Having been out bush for the last few days, I am just catching the tail end of this thread. Many valid points made and a bit of $4it stirring to boot - gotta love the forum.

When it comes to solid-bodies - we may be in the minority here and that is fine because we like some of the company (Turner, Alembic, John Carruthers, Sadowsky, Billy Asher, Ben Harper, Mike Porcaro, Mike DeTemple, Ned Steinberger, Haskell Haile, Benito Huipe, Fleta, S. Duncan, Benedetto, Caldersmith, Courtnall, DeLucia, etc,etc google 'em guys/gals - name dropping ceased) - it is about the material to more of an extent than most pickers and builders typically acknowledge.

The job of the electronics in a solid body is to capture vibration, convert it to voltage, get it to an ampifier and then out to the air again. Vibration in - Vibration out. Hang with me a sec...

Each component piece of a guitar reacts in a particular way to a given stimulus.
Marry those pieces together and you get an amalgamated response to that same stimulus.
The vibration of a string is affected by the properties of the material to which it is attached.
The nuances beyond the fundamental note are affected to a somewhat greater degree by the materials through and against which they run as they have less inertia.

We know GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). Sucky electronics and poor amps will make a great piece sound bad. Conversely, the best magnets, pots, and wire in the world can only reproduce that which is there in the first place. For the casual picker and recreational builder it may not mean much to have a guitar that has that "magic" to it... but once one has been given the chance to play one of the good ones, it raises the bar for that person. Usually.

We know Bob Taylor built a piece out of shipping crate wood.
We played a Steinberger (way pre-Gibson of course) for years
We have played Zon, Wahl, and even aluminium-necked Kramers
Martin built a series with metal tops
Wood is not the only way, just our preferred

Better close the rant here... materials do color the tone of a solid body. Want proof? build a few to the same specs out of differing materials, shuttle the guts from one to the next and have a listen.

PHEW, need not to go away from the computer for so long. Verbal Chunder on our part.

Cheers,
- Riggsy

From a musicians point of you give me a guitar that sounds and plays really good, I don't have to know what it's made from, who made it or where it comes from, it doesn't really matter.

A guitarist wouldn't pass up a great sounding guitar even if it was made from MDF. Point in case, a $180.00 guitar with a ply wood body, that shocked the hell out of me when recording because it sounds great.

To me a guitar is a work horse not a work of art, although, I've seen absolutely stunning looking guitars, but I simply wouldn't pay thousands of dollars for something that is going to get scratched, dented, sweated on and probably at some stage knocked over or dropped or worse still as has recently happened to a good mate, stolen.

There are good arguments for and against everything, I don't really think there are any right or wrongs, just different opinions and reasons.

Like a customer who is building a custom Tele,... to put in a glass case and hang on his wall, ok...thats great, but personally I would never understand the point to that or do it. But thats ok, everyone is different. Good on him.

Originally Posted by GhostGuitarist

From a musicians point of you give me a guitar that sounds and plays really good, I don't have to know what it's made from, who made it or where it comes from, it doesn't really matter.

Could not agree more... it is all about TONE and playability...Well stated Ghost.